what do you think the most important component to an SQ application is..?

[maylar 10+ year member]

Ok, first you have to understand that the signal when going through a stranded piece of wire will break apart in to each individual strand of copper and travel the length of the wire, then again at the end when it reaches the speaker it has to come back together to create one signal again.

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Please provide references for your assertion.

And before you get too buried in your own ********, you should be aware that there are a number of EE's on this forum who will be more than happy to call you on it. I'm one of them.

Yes, Silver has lower resistance than Copper. And 99% Oxygen-free copper doesn't oxidize over time. But you'll never hear the difference. Wire is wire.

Wire gages are based on circular-mil area, not diameter. A 16 gage stranded wire has exactly the same current carrying capacity and resistance (circular mils) as a solid wire of the same gage. Each strand is in intimate contact with its neighbor. The signal does not "break up" into the individual strands.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[vurtrider 10+ year member]

Most SQ decks will use double DACs for each output, not just one for the whole system! As for the “low cost” if this were actually the case and the cost of producing a circuit board prepped for the Burr Browns was not any more costly then tell me why everyone would not use them considering the money “companies make promoting the name”? You all can get pissed about what I have to say and you can say I am full of crap if you want to but you have not experienced the difference for yourselves which makes your response a lot like reviewing a movie you have not seen by asking a person who lives with a person who has actually seen it and is the producer of the movie in question’s competition. Not the best place to get advice if you know what I mean. I am not trying to put you all down just share information, I know that most people will not notice the difference in most of the items we are all talking about but after all this is a SQ board is it not. SQ means one thing, producing a completely reference flat signal. If you want to do this it takes careful consideration of all the topics and items discussed in this forum so far.

“

And all this time the rest of the world thought that loudspeaker performance was based upon the driver itself. How foolish”

The driver depends on the parts that make it! Figure that out!

“Ah, nothing like enormously broad sweeping generalizations about the VC configurations of every loudspeaker out there.”

If you would like the actual chart for a specific speaker let me know. I will see if I can figure it out but I can’t guarantee anything. The generalization stands however, just as an example and you can understand that the generalization does represent well the effects of the wire length and gage on the overall resistance of the woofer and intern the signal being sent.

“Who uses 20awg wire in aftermarket setups?

And what of the Skin Effect?

You talk big, but it's all crap.”

You are right that 20awg wire is small for any aftermarket setup. You still have to consider the fact that the gage and type of wire will affect the sound of the system. This is explained much better than I can do it here

http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/audio/skineffect/page1.html

This site will answer your questions about skin affect as well as cover my arguments about solid core vs. stranded. Go read it and then come back and tell me I am full of crap. Please bring something to back yourself up other than name-calling.

“Weird...I didn't know my 110V and 12V car stereo were the same.”

They are not I never said they were. However the principals of wiring and sound processing and the same. And it does serve the purpose of auditioning differing cables.

 

[vurtrider 10+ year member]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif
Please provide references for your assertion.

And before you get too buried in your own ********, you should be aware that there are a number of EE's on this forum who will be more than happy to call you on it. I'm one of them.

Yes, Silver has lower resistance than Copper. And 99% Oxygen-free copper doesn't oxidize over time. But you'll never hear the difference. Wire is wire.

Wire gages are based on circular-mil area, not diameter. A 16 gage stranded wire has exactly the same current carrying capacity and resistance (circular mils) as a solid wire of the same gage. Each strand is in intimate contact with its neighbor. The signal does not "break up" into the individual strands.

Welcome to the forum.

Thank you for the welcome. I have provided a reference above to your statements about the wire. I would love to be called on my assertions, as I love to discuss this topic and love to learn from those who have more knowledge than I. If you disagree with me then I am willing to discuss it. And I can admit when I am wrong but I am very opinionated and it will take experience to change my mind. Give me advice on what to check out to prove your point and I will if your right I will post that! I am not out to call anyone names or to get anyone mad, just telling you what I know and think. That’s what these boards are for is it not?

 

[Mark_ab 5,000+ posts]

Most SQ decks will use double DACs for each output, not just one for the whole system! As for the “low cost” if this were actually the case and the cost of producing a circuit board prepped for the Burr Browns was not any more costly then tell me why everyone would not use them considering the money “companies make promoting the name”? You all can get pissed about what I have to say and you can say I am full of crap if you want to but you have not experienced the difference for yourselves which makes your response a lot like reviewing a movie you have not seen by asking a person who lives with a person who has actually seen it and is the producer of the movie in question’s competition. Not the best place to get advice if you know what I mean. I am not trying to put you all down just share information, I know that most people will not notice the difference in most of the items we are all talking about but after all this is a SQ board is it not. SQ means one thing, producing a completely reference flat signal. If you want to do this it takes careful consideration of all the topics and items discussed in this forum so far.
“

And all this time the rest of the world thought that loudspeaker performance was based upon the driver itself. How foolish”

The driver depends on the parts that make it! Figure that out!

“Ah, nothing like enormously broad sweeping generalizations about the VC configurations of every loudspeaker out there.”

If you would like the actual chart for a specific speaker let me know. I will see if I can figure it out but I can’t guarantee anything. The generalization stands however, just as an example and you can understand that the generalization does represent well the effects of the wire length and gage on the overall resistance of the woofer and intern the signal being sent.

“Who uses 20awg wire in aftermarket setups?

And what of the Skin Effect?

You talk big, but it's all crap.”

You are right that 20awg wire is small for any aftermarket setup. You still have to consider the fact that the gage and type of wire will affect the sound of the system. This is explained much better than I can do it here

http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/audio/skineffect/page1.html

This site will answer your questions about skin affect as well as cover my arguments about solid core vs. stranded. Go read it and then come back and tell me I am full of crap. Please bring something to back yourself up other than name-calling.

“Weird...I didn't know my 110V and 12V car stereo were the same.”

They are not I never said they were. However the principals of wiring and sound processing and the same. And it does serve the purpose of auditioning differing cables.

*yawn - again*

Not a clue in the world.

"Never argue with a fool, for the world might not know the difference"

 

[Bavarian3 10+ year member]

vurtrider - you are ridiculous. Why are u trying to say that wire will after SQ. I could understand if ur saying to spend a little extra on better RCA's so u dont get any alt. whine in case in comes in contact of power wires. But all power wire and ground wire are the same freakin thing. All wire does is let the current go through.

Lemme guess what else u think, a watt from an expensive amp SOUNDS bettter than a watt from a cheaper amp.

 

[Boomin Granny 10+ year member]

The weakest link in any audio system is the speakers, they are the result of the most distortion, and therefore they are the most important thing to focus on in any audio application(including speaker placement).

 

[adam71 5,000+ posts]

I am not out to call anyone names or to get anyone mad, just telling you what I know and think. That’s what these boards are for is it not?

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Yes, thats what the threads are for. Its just that some people on here forget that sometimes. But in any event.........welcome to the forum.

Adam

 

[vurtrider 10+ year member]

thanks man, Im just trying to learn and spread the knowledge.

 

[maylar 10+ year member]

Thanks for the very interesting link on wires, virtrider. YGM.

We should apologize to the original poster for hijacking his thread and straying way off topic. It's bad forum etiquette.

In that vein, I'll offer my opinion of what makes an SQ system:

All of it matters, everything. Each item I've upgraded has made an improvement in my system. Some changes were more profound than others, but I'm sure it depends on the particular install and the sequence in which you make changes.

If the stock speakers are good to start with, you might get more improvement changing the HU than the speakers. If the speakers **** (like my factory GM speakers did) then you won't get a major improvement with a new HU. Once the speakers are up to par, the HU will make a noticable difference.

Amping the fronts made a huge difference for me. Would it have been as much an improvement with the stock radio and speakers? I dunno.

Dampening the doors was a huge improvement too. Would it have been as significant if the speakers were on HU power? Dunno that either.

It's kinda like modifying an engine.. which makes the biggest difference, headers, intake, or cam? They all play together and how much improvement you get depends on which one is holding the motor back. Same with car audio.

 

[vurtrider 10+ year member]

Thanks for the very interesting link on wires, virtrider. YGM.
We should apologize to the original poster for hijacking his thread and straying way off topic. It's bad forum etiquette.

In that vein, I'll offer my opinion of what makes an SQ system:

All of it matters, everything. Each item I've upgraded has made an improvement in my system. Some changes were more profound than others, but I'm sure it depends on the particular install and the sequence in which you make changes.

If the stock speakers are good to start with, you might get more improvement changing the HU than the speakers. If the speakers **** (like my factory GM speakers did) then you won't get a major improvement with a new HU. Once the speakers are up to par, the HU will make a noticable difference.

Amping the fronts made a huge difference for me. Would it have been as much an improvement with the stock radio and speakers? I dunno.

Dampening the doors was a huge improvement too. Would it have been as significant if the speakers were on HU power? Dunno that either.

It's kinda like modifying an engine.. which makes the biggest difference, headers, intake, or cam? They all play together and how much improvement you get depends on which one is holding the motor back. Same with car audio.

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This ,if you go back and read, is the same arguement as my origonal post that started the KILL VURTRIDER attitude. I am in complete agreement with this statement and perhaps it states my opinion better than I did. Every part is important! Just don't overlook something in your install because you feel it is not as important as the speakers, you could be suprised by the results.

 

[JLCivic 10+ year member]

Most important...LOCATION of front speakers.

 

[vurtrider 10+ year member]

Ok here is the truth of the matter. We are all engaged in a argument that plays out over and over in every message board dealing with audio as well as in every major audiophile magazine and I doubt we as a group will solve the problem. If you go out to the web and look for answers you will find sites that will support what we have all said in one form or another. I am going to list some sites for you all to check out that deal with cable and the arguments we are engaged in. Both supporting and contradicting what I have stated here. I am an open-minded person and I know that most of this is subjective. But the truth seems to be that people on this message board don’t want to concede that some one might have more knowledge about audio than they do. Or maybe it is a pride thing about the equipment we own and we don’t want to concede that there could be better equipment out there. Well I have to ask when was the last time any one won a world SQ compitition using PYLE, Fosgate, audiobaun, or even pioneer amps? It doesn’t happen, and why? If a watt is a watt and all cable is the same and all decks are the same and so on and so on . . . The answer is simple They are not all the same my friends and a watt is not a watt when you have to factor in all the variables of the power and signal used in the creation of that watt. Some companies have managed to produce a cleaner watt than others, not a more powerful watt, as it is a measure of energy not cleanliness.

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/cables/bbs.html

http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/cables.htm

http://www.diyaudio.com/

http://www.venhaus1.com/

 

[vurtrider 10+ year member]

I must admidt that the pioneer ODR stuff is of the highest quality and has won some comps. sorry for the pioneer slam.

 

[vurtrider 10+ year member]

*yawn - again*Not a clue in the world.

"Never argue with a fool, for the world might not know the difference"

You got something to say of relavence then do it other wise your comments are useless and only serve as putdowns. If that is what you are out here to do then have fun but I doubt you can put together a solid argument against me. Sorry if my writing is not exciting enough for you but the truth is some times boring and long winded. Get over yourself and expand your knowledge man.

 

[GSteg 10+ year member]

ya'll crazy! Silver wire>black wire. why? the black wire has more pigment in it, therefore it will attract more heat. More heat-->more resistance--->bad

hrm..but then again..

black-->hot-->sweat-->Mark_AB takes his cloths off--->good

So is black good or bad? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif

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On topic-

to me (and my pet dog), the most important thing for a sound quality system are horns. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif