what do you guys think about war?

[Corsica 5,000+ posts]

Originally posted by 97dakota I too feel that we shoot ourselves in the foot, and feel that those with money how ever small it is should always help the lesser. I also feel that if they would get off welfare and work I know its a four letter word, there would be far less homeless and starving people. they decided to be bums not, all of them, but a vast majority of them.

speaking of which Welfare needs tougher restrictions. They get too much from the Govt. as it is man. I tell ya tha way u see it abused when u work @ a grocery store............

J

 

[FAM4LIFE 10+ year member]

Originally posted by Corsica speaking of which Welfare needs tougher restrictions. They get too much from the Govt. as it is man. I tell ya tha way u see it abused when u work @ a grocery store............

 

J

I agree. However unless you know the reason for them being homeless or on welfare, you shouldn't just assume things. I know I ignore alot of homeless because I think they want to buy alcohol or drugs. Its not right, not right at all.

 

[97dakota 10+ year member]

I am going to pick my words wisely or at least try to.

I work with a guy at work, has a son, few months old, not married, smokes weed by the minute, and was *****ing about how is welfare wasn't paying for him to buy candy or something stupid like that. although I give him props, he is a very hard worker, decent guy just doesn't have his priorities in line.

why does the govt continue to give money to the scum of the earth because they are to lazy to work for anything. talk about haveing no pride. sure I hate going to work at UPS every day to load seven trailers with boxes but you know what, you look back on those few hours of work, and I am like yea, I did something today. working on cars is the same way. when you install it your self, you have a great pride that goes with it. even if it is jensen or road gear, you did it. it is your own creation. and these people are gripping about getting 200 dollars a week or what ever it is in stead of 300 and not working for a single cent. that makes me sick.

so how bout that war,. wow.

 

[97dakota 10+ year member]

Originally posted by FAM4LIFE I agree. However unless you know the reason for them being homeless or on welfare, you shouldn't just assume things. I know I ignore alot of homeless because I think they want to buy alcohol or drugs. Its not right, not right at all.

I can only think of a few reasons anyone would be on welfare and that is they are to lazy to work, or they like free money. either way I am working to give them money. nay, I would rather send it to my grandparents. I know how hard of a life they have had and my grandfather of 80 years continues to work in a factory job to pay for my grandmothers medicine. she beat the shitt out of her cancer. it was great.

 

[97dakota 10+ year member]

hey this is extremely off topic but how do you load a new avatar. I have a great pic on my computer of a bald eagle sharping his claws with a file with a tear on his check. I think that would fit in well.

 

[Randy Savage 5,000+ posts]

Originally posted by 97dakota hey this is extremely off topic but how do you load a new avatar. I have a great pic on my computer of a bald eagle sharping his claws with a file with a tear on his check. I think that would fit in well.

Got to the user control panel, and under options, on the bottom, it says change avatar. Click on it, go to browse, and select the pic, but the pic can't be bigger then 120 x 120 pixels.

 

[mamey69 10+ year member]

http://www.votenowar.org/

 

[Corsica 5,000+ posts]

Originally posted by 97dakota I can only think of a few reasons anyone would be on welfare and that is they are to lazy to work, or they like free money. either way I am working to give them money. nay, I would rather send it to my grandparents. I know how hard of a life they have had and my grandfather of 80 years continues to work in a factory job to pay for my grandmothers medicine. she beat the shitt out of her cancer. it was great.

Welfare i think should be used for a max of 3 mths. When u have NO work or ur work went out. Your fired? 3 mths. on govt. pocket then u gotta be back to work............I ment they needed to tighten what u can gte, cause i see people getting cereal, tea, cookies, combos, pop, chips, baby food, and subs. yet they cannot pay for shit, then go to the ATM, use their foodstaps card, go back to the isles and buy beer. It makes me want to ****ing puke...........anwyas enough of my *****ing.....BTW dakota congrats to ur grandma.....after like 6 yrs. my grandfather wasn't as lucky. I still miss him everyday.

J

 

[Savant 10+ year member]

Originally posted by 97dakota I can only think of a few reasons anyone would be on welfare and that is they are to lazy to work, or they like free money. either way I am working to give them money. nay, I would rather send it to my grandparents. I know how hard of a life they have had and my grandfather of 80 years continues to work in a factory job to pay for my grandmothers medicine. she beat the shitt out of her cancer. it was great.

I can think of a few others.. You get pregnant because you have a super-critical christian family that refuses to talk to you about ***, but you live in a society where it happens all the time.. since you can't talk to your family and are terrified to have them find birth control in your house that you 'try to be safe'.. Then you end up 17 or 18 and pregnant and your family kicks you out.. what do you do? Can't work some crappy job and be able to afford child care and rent and food.. Isn't reasonable.. So, you have the State help you for a little while (a few years maybe, while you try to get an education to get a decent job..

Apparently you've never been on welfare cause it's not like you get a lot of money (free money).. barely enough to get by (unless you like living in shitty rat-infested places and not having money for christmas or birthdays or new clothes or a nice tv or whathaveyou)..

And as for being lazy and "not wanting to work".. You obviously have never had an economics class.. Our economy REQUIRES at least a 3% unemployment rate to function. People being willing to work for less than the next guy so employers can keep getting the same thing done without paying more over time.. If there isn't a surplus of work force, employers can't stay competitive with wages (on the low side).. And, now that we are moving farther into the Information Age, we need TECHNICAL people more than anything.. Part of the problem there isn't laziness.. it's that we don't have enough smart people to fill those jobs (why do you think we give so many visas to technically skilled people from other countries..) The point here is, the unskilled people (and even a decent portion of lower-middle class skill leveled people) don't have jobs to go to.. It's easy to say "if you want a job you can get one" if you are a white male (mostly who say that, from my experience).. There are only so many McDonald's jobs out there.. And, with the population explosion we have going on, there are even more people than available jobs..

I agree that welfare needs some reform.. no question, but it's something we need unless you want crime to go up.. You put these people on the street with NO way to get by, and they will do what it takes (the survival instinct is damm strong)..

Course, things would be a LOT better if the SUPER-RICH in this country weren't so greedy (but that's part of our economy too).. if they would let prices come down or stop having the government letting them get away without paying their fair share..

Anyway, this is way off topic ..

EDIT: Oh, and if you want to send money to your grandparents, get a better job making more money.. then you can pay your fair share to the government for the protection, etc.. and have money to spare to send to your grandfather.. Don't tell me you can't get a better job.. you (and many others) seem to think getting a job that will pay what you want is easy..

 

[Corsica 5,000+ posts]

I'm not saying abolish welfare, but reform it. People **** the system. They beat it like a red headded step child. They have welfare case workers and if the workers did their job and gave the welfare to people who really need it this problem wouldn't exist now would it??

J

 

[Savant 10+ year member]

Originally posted by LuRp well i see ive sparked up all those comments...

 

well like i said before. I will not apologize for living in a great country that has had great leaders who made it what it is. Call me what you like. The plain facts are that all those suffering poor arabs in soudi arabia, blah blah blah, have their countries leaders to thank for that... If i have to explain to you how rich saudi arabia is, then its not worth my time chatting with you folks.

 

like i said, im not about to feel sorry for myself b/c i have it better.

 

to sum up your whole argument in laymans terms - "The Americans waste, therefore they deserve to die." well F*CK that and F*CK you.

 

 

I know we are not perfect. I know we have done some shitty things. But all of you seem to ignore the aid and support my country gives.

 

 

Also, keep in mind that within the next two decades foreign oil is going to become a non-factor with hydrogen powered egines. And everything else that requires oil will be tapped from our own sources.

 

 

LuRp

Again, you show your ignorance (which says alot about how you get your opinions).. No one said 'you waste so you deserve to die'.. I said "you waste so you piss off people that you take from when they see you wasting what they gave up for you"..

And, I agree that to a large extent the empoverished countries can blame their leaders for their poverty (like not being able to get food to ethiopia because their government holds up food shipments until they spoil).. but their leaders are only acting like Americans.. greedy, cruel, narsacistic shitheads.. When the people of that country see that their leaders are acting like Americans and screwing them over, they get mad at us (right or wrong).. Hell, a lot of the time they kill their leader and some dictator ends up in power .. and kisses America's *** at the expense of their own people.. Saudi Arabia isn't "rich".. a FEW of the families own all the oil, and therefore all the wealth.. Most of the middle east is dirt poor..

And, this is NOT a debate that can be "summed up in layman's terms"... You have to actually understand something about the world around you.. If you want to try and sum it up, you would have to say a LOT more than one sentance or you wouldn't be accurately (or fairly) be showing the issues and not letting the uninformed make an informed opinion..

As far as oil goes.. We have been able to get away from oil for over 30 years now.. but we don't because people like Bush and his friends OWN THE OIL in this country, and their political friends help them get all the oil they can from forgein markets.. As for "everything else" that needs oil comming from our own sources, we don't have enough oil to survive for more than a few decades, and that's only if we seriously cut back on petrolium based products (and at the rate we are making more things disposable, that isn't likely to happen).. We hear about 'alternative fuel sources', but the truth of the matter is, we won't take that seriously until we are about out of all other options.. (oh, the getting away from oil that I talk about is propane vehicles.. There are a lot of cabs that are doing that now.. and I bought a 1974 Chevy Impalla that came from the factory with propane injectors, etc.. made for some propane company.. car had 70,000 miles on it and the oil was only changed once.. it's gasoline that's the problem, not internal combustion)..

Anyway, there is no point in discussing things like this with people like you .. you have no ability to think on your own and can't even absorb what you read.. Like I said before, it's people like you that are the problem; How can anyone expect you see that?

 

[Savant 10+ year member]

Originally posted by Corsica Welfare i think should be used for a max of 3 mths. When u have NO work or ur work went out. Your fired? 3 mths. on govt. pocket then u gotta be back to work............I ment they needed to tighten what u can gte, cause i see people getting cereal, tea, cookies, combos, pop, chips, baby food, and subs. yet they cannot pay for shit, then go to the ATM, use their foodstaps card, go back to the isles and buy beer. It makes me want to ****ing puke...........anwyas enough of my *****ing.....BTW dakota congrats to ur grandma.....after like 6 yrs. my grandfather wasn't as lucky. I still miss him everyday.

 

 

J

Actually, an unemployed (single) male can't get welfare.. you loose your job and you get unemployment for a short time, based on what you made while employed.. Welfare isn't about helping when you are out of work, it's meant to help mothers and families when their job(s) can't make them get up to the poverty level. Pretty sick that a mom and dad can BOTH have jobs and STILL make less than the poverty level if they have 2 kids.. That's what welfare is for.. And, there is no gaurentee that 'after 3 months' you can 'get another job'.. that's part of the problem (read my other post)..

I'm not sure what you are talking about with 'foodstamp card' and getting cash, might be new or just where you live.. I've never seen those.. And, how the hell can you complain that people are buying BABY FOOD? or tea? or cereal?.. that makes no sense to me.. Just because you can't get a job to cover all your bills doesn't mean you shouldn't feed your baby or drink tea or have soda.. WTF? drink water for months on end? are you NUTS? I can see buying beer as being bothersome.. but for (most) of the rest that you are complaining about, I don't get it..

Again, this is WAY off topic.. I don't understand how we get to things like this.. Oh, wait.. I do.. people that can't present reasonable arguments so they try to sidetrack the issues..

 

[Savant 10+ year member]

Originally posted by Corsica I'm not saying abolish welfare, but reform it. People **** the system. They beat it like a red headded step child. They have welfare case workers and if the workers did their job and gave the welfare to people who really need it this problem wouldn't exist now would it??

 

J

Again...... Some people abuse it.. but think about why.. they have the same attitude as most Americans... they feel they are owed something for nor real good reason.. Not all people on welfare can stomach that kind of life.. they want more from life and only take welfare while they work at getting a step up..

I agree that they should impose stricter rules.. you come on welfare with X kids.. ok.. you get pregnant on welfare, ok.. you get money for that.. if and ONLY if you agree to be sterlized.. harsh? maybe a little.. but it sure would stop the people that put out a kid every 2 years to stay on the system..

 

[mrray13 10+ year member]

well, i just spent the better part of an hour reading this thread, even shutting out my horny wife off for a minute...WOW...be glad u guys live in a country where u can post this stuff..

as to FAM4LIFE comments about joining..i tried, a high school knee injury made sure i failed the physical...i wanted to join to protect this country, to serve in her honor..for whatever reason and at whatever risk. i have lost friends and relatives in past conflicts..have many more who served and came back. some were drafted, others volunteered..all knew the risks envolved. and except for a few who were drafted, didn't care about the risks. they were serving the greatest country on the planet. period. all were/ ARE heros..my brother is currently serving and was whining about going to Kuwait..my response? shut the **** up! how i wish i could go, to serve this nation in her time of need. so it's for a corrupt goverment..name a countries goverment that isn't corrupt. so it's under the command of an arrogent shithead..name a county who's leader isn't....name a country who's leader isn't all about himself/herself..go ahead...i dare anyone. and if you think you found one...do some research into that country's turmoil..they all have some.

shit, i'm rambling....but since i've started.....

i won't quote anyone else directly..but some things need to be said..

first, i won't and don't claim to know everything about these situations...but i have an opinion..u want to flame me for it..fine

one of the greatest things about this country is the ability to have your own opinion..concerning whatever.

one of the weakest things about this country is our belief in each other. we don't have any...we will gladly dog the person next to us, but how many of us will pick them up?

our country is no longer what it was because of those two above mentioned things. we are so self invoved, so self important that we forget our neighbor. we would rather spout off at the mouth about our neighbors rundown house instead of getting our hands dirty and HELPING to fix it up..

BUT...

let another country need something...every actor in america is on tv asking for a donation..but we are the assholes...

terriosts attacked us...killing not only american citizens, but citizens from other counties as well..the Bible says an eye for an eye.....so be it we get stuck in the eye..but we better not stick someone elses?? ****.....

yep, i'm rambling.....

to finish my book...

yeah, our economy sucks and we are a country ran by greed.

yeah, this war will probably come back and bite us in the ***

but until then.....

DEATH TO ALL THAT THREATEN US....if there is a God..He can sort them out

even if it means my death and that of my family....NO ONE, country or otherwise, will ever harm me, or my country, without retaliation

and my family supports what i just typed

we are part of what should make this the greatest country on the planet....HER PEOPLE and will stand by her as such!!

 

[LuRp 10+ year member]

savant wrote: Again, you show your ignorance (which says alot about how you get your opinions).. No one said 'you waste so you deserve to die'.. I said "you waste so you piss off people that you take from when they see you wasting what they gave up for you"..

Funny I thought we paid for all that stuff that was givin to us. And all this time it was just givin to us in good faith, how stupid of me.

savant wrote: (which says alot about how you get your opinions)

I work at the New York Merchantile Exchange, which is about 150 - 200 feet (yeah feet) away from ground zero. Some of the things we do there is trade commodities futures contracts.

com·mod·i·ty - Pronunciation: k&-'mä-d&-tE

Function: noun

Inflected Form(s): plural -ties

Etymology: Middle English commoditee, from Middle French commodité, from Latin commoditat-, commoditas, from commodus

Date: 15th century

1 : an economic good: as a : a product of agriculture or mining b : an article of commerce especially when delivered for shipment c : a mass-produced unspecialized product

A few of the biggest markets are natural gas, crude oil, unleaded gas etc.. Now im gonna go off on a limb and say thats somewhat relevant to my "ignorant" opinion. Hmm, maybe not, what do we at NYMEX know anyway, its not like we set the price for that stuff or anything.

savant wrote: Saudi Arabia isn't "rich".. a FEW of the families own all the oil, and therefore all the wealth.. Most of the middle east is dirt poor..

With oil revenues making up around 90-95% of total Saudi export earnings, 70%-80% of state revenues, and around 40% of the country's gross domestic product (GDP), Saudi Arabia's economy remains, despite attempts at diversification, heavily dependent on oil (although investments in petrochemicals have increased the relative importance of the downstream petroleum sector in recent years). The sharp rebound in world oil prices between early 1999 and September 2001, for instance, improved the country's economic outlook greatly, and to some extent removed pressures for major changes, while the sharp decline in oil prices following the September 11 terrorist attacks on the United States threw Saudi Arabia's economic outlook back into question. Oil prices have been strong once again in 2002, and for the year, Saudi Arabia is expected to earn nearly $55 billion in crude oil export revenues, roughly unchanged from 2001. Given flat oil export revenues, Saudi Arabia's economy is likely to see slow growth in 2002. For 2001, Saudi real GDP growth was about 1.2%, significantly lower than forecasts made prior to September 11, 2001. The Saudi economy also has slowed sharply from 2000 when, in large part fueled by high oil export revenues, the country's real GDP grew by about 4.5%. For 2002, Saudi real GDP growth of 1.5% is expected, with inflation of about 0.6%

Source http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/saudi.html

I don't think a comment here is required.

savant wrote: And, this is NOT a debate that can be "summed up in layman's terms"... You have to actually understand something about the world around you.. If you want to try and sum it up, you would have to say a LOT more than one sentance or you wouldn't be accurately (or fairly) be showing the issues and not letting the uninformed make an informed opinion..

The "uninformed" have an obligation to inform themselves. It is not my responsibility to hold anyones hands. All i can do is express my opinion based on information i review. If anyone is baseing their opinion solely from a message forum at Caraudio.com, I highly recommend taking a trip over to your local library.

savant wrote: As far as oil goes.. We have been able to get away from oil for over 30 years now.. but we don't because people like Bush and his friends OWN THE OIL in this country, and their political friends help them get all the oil they can from forgein markets.. As for "everything else" that needs oil comming from our own sources, we don't have enough oil to survive for more than a few decades, and that's only if we seriously cut back on petrolium based products (and at the rate we are making more things disposable, that isn't likely to happen)..

Hey man, we are in total agreement here. We should have had solar powered everything 10 years ago.. theres no doubt in my mind that greedy oil companies held back the research to make a buck. But what is done is done. We are changeing that now by moving in that direction.

savant wrote: We hear about 'alternative fuel sources', but the truth of the matter is, we won't take that seriously until we are about out of all other options.. (oh, the getting away from oil that I talk about is propane vehicles.. There are a lot of cabs that are doing that now.. and I bought a 1974 Chevy Impalla that came from the factory with propane injectors, etc.. made for some propane company.. car had 70,000 miles on it and the oil was only changed once.. it's gasoline that's the problem, not internal combustion)..

pro·pane - Pronunciation: 'prO-"pAn

Function: noun

Etymology: International Scientific Vocabulary prop- + -ane

Date: 1866

: a heavy flammable gaseous alkane C3H8 found in crude petroleum and natural gas and used especially as fuel and in chemical synthesis

Propane is just another form of refined oil (petroleum). A true solution is the hydrogen powered engines that are out now. They (they, being the researchers) are working on implementing them in motor vehicles. The byproduct of a hydrogen engine is H2O, for those of you un-aquainted with chemistry, it's water. Therefore reduceing the CO2 and NOX emissions.

Source http://www.sae.org/automag/techbriefs/04-2002/page3.htm

savant wrote: Anyway, there is no point in discussing things like this with people like you .. you have no ability to think on your own and can't even absorb what you read.. Like I said before, it's people like you that are the problem; How can anyone expect you see that?

Whatever you say cheif.