voltage requirements of true power

you seem to always say you calculated out the voltage on the amps and subs but you never in fact tell us the formula for that. or am i just lost all reading this

 
help me figure out my system when i install it in my new car. i got four ohm speakers hooked up to a rockford fosgate t400-4 and then i got a diamond audio d9 12 that i want 1400 rms going to it thats a dual 4 ohm wired down to 2 ohms on a rockford fosgate t2500 bdcp

lol your help would be great. i just got all lost on this

 
What model 4 ohms speakers do you have? Also, keep in mind that the reason I have not posted the formulas yet, is because everything is still being tested. I just did some more tests on the tweeters, and they may need a different calculation of voltage if they act as a pure resistor, which some do. So, again, these tests are just updated as they are done, and if all fails, Ill let you all know. So, don't get too excited yet. BUT, I can do some figures for you if you like and see what I can come up with.

Do you have the specs on the DA12 as well? Any and all specs will be helpful for everything you have if possible. If not, I'm sure I can get them.

 
What model 4 ohms speakers do you have? Also, keep in mind that the reason I have not posted the formulas yet, is because everything is still being tested. I just did some more tests on the tweeters, and they may need a different calculation of voltage if they act as a pure resistor, which some do. So, again, these tests are just updated as they are done, and if all fails, Ill let you all know. So, don't get too excited yet. BUT, I can do some figures for you if you like and see what I can come up with.
Do you have the specs on the DA12 as well? Any and all specs will be helpful for everything you have if possible. If not, I'm sure I can get them.
i will wait to see what your formula is and see if i can figure out it my self but if all esle fails. id greatly appropriate your help. i will not be hooking up the system till after christmas since my wife wrapped up my amps.

thanks

 
Ok, so Im working on putting the video together right now. I had to take it in two different clips, so I need to put them together. It is not edited much for show, I dont care much about that. This is just to show you what is done during my testing to verify my figures....NOT to show you HOW to do it yet. It is not instructional, but informational. Ill post it up soon once it finish optimizing and converting, etc. I might say "ummm" a lot in the video as well, and I apologize for that. I was collecting my thoughts DURING the recording and none of it was really planned......I just did it, so I apologize if it is not professional.

 
man, i really hate to jump in with this one, since you are doing pretty good on this one and your calculations, but there is a big side of this that you seem to have left out of your factors....basically- "rail sag"

now, you touched on it's effect when you pointed out the voltage increase @fs, but just missed it. here's a little insite into how all the different amps are working, and really most are different, so i cannot really give the examples, but i'll shoot. the biggest differences are in the effectiveness of the power supplies. both in the controlling, torroid efficiency, and power starage. so we'll throw out a few categories first, i'll jump into unregulated power supplies. those are set up so that they are being activated at full power at all times, and the only thing that keeps the current down on them is the resistance provided when the rail(s) reach charged. next, is the simple regulated power supplies- they measure the voltage that is stored and only increase the activity to keep the voltage above a certain level. and then there are the more "logic" power supplies, which work in different ways to keep not only a certain voltage range, but usually monitor the voltage drops at different points and adjust the voltage accordingly to maintain a certain wattage. this is typically what you will find in the "any ohm" rated amps. and then you move on to the effectiveness of the torroid/transformer and rail voltage storage. the rail sag is going to be very different from one amp to the next, and that will play a large role on your peak:rms difference. see, many amps will rate the peak power by calculating the max idle charged rail voltage vs. ohm load. others, will measure maximum sustained power, no matter how bad the output sounds. this is more-so what you see when the max is only slightly more than rms. there is also the vast difference in range of voltage sag. for instance, the crappy power supply in a sony explode can charge the rails to, say 36v+/-.... now the sustainable voltage of the power supply without the benefit of chrging, it can only maintain 15v, so your peak is going to be huge in comparison to the point where rail voltage will dictate that the signal is starting to be effected if increased. (this is where the root mean square, "rms" is supposedly on any amp) so, now you take a nice class d, like a directed, or ed, or whatever you prefer as a typical example..... we'll take 2 different ones to compare, both theoretical amps, but reflect real-world readings. amp "a" has a resting rail voltage of 36, yet it maintains between 30-32v in it's higher efficiency loads, and 26-28v at it's lowest and most stressed load, then you have your amp"b" that similarly rests at 117-18v and only dropping to 14-15v. i cannot see the calculations really working out on either of those, but i do not have the whole idea in my head as you do, and i'm really not trying to pick a fight, or discourage, just some things to think about/factor. i also know that defined rms is different from company to company, and even differntly on the same amp of different years, or lines*cough, cough* rockford*cough* one measured distortion could be at the

 
Can I like that post twice? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif No stirring anything up at all man, that was a great post! And I want to say thank you for posting it here. This will not only help me out with accuracy, (If possible) and also get people to understand the whole reason I am doing this: which is to show that amps are different and can be misleading, etc. And the formulas are a way to counteract the differences and keep it simple for people. SO, again, thank you for that post and don't feel like it is stepping over any shoes. I also had a person on here send me textbooks through an email that will help for referencing as well. You guys are amazing. And I want everyone else to see that I do not have all the answers when it comes to electrical, but acoustical, that is my field(even though it involves a lot of electrical, it is not my major), so for that, thank you and I will look into those variables. It seems like these are the ones that have people confused over what to buy because you never know without testing, what the manufacturer used to get their readings.......this goes great with what I am doing. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

So, as far as measurements go, reading what you said about distortion levels, that is tough to know unless you are able to measure it all. As well as actual RMS values, BUT the whole point of this is to get a better idea, rather than preciseness, BECAUSE, this is to simulate figures BEFORE an amplifier, or a driver is purchased. So, this formula is to help those who do not have the capability to test before purchase. These factors you mention about what an amplifier does from the inside is great information, not something we can utilize in an "out-of-box" situation but great to know for my sake, so the formula relies on peak power specifications because those are considered "limitations" as rms values are variables more than peak (virtually). BUT, for that reason, the formula does already have a "range" of voltage to account for the amplifier changes in efficiency and such, so hopefully this will account for those examples you have mentioned so far. Again, great info, and thank you for the heads up. Ill look into that as well. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Since we cannot obtain a complete rundown of the electrical consumption and supply of a given amplifier without all of these factors involved (MUCH like audio as well), then some averages HAVE to be followed for the average consumer, but that does not mean that accuracy is decreased to the point of not being able to trust it....in fact, the averages I use are more precise than the manufacturer, and if they test their products out with minimal distortion levels present, then the accuracy I utilize increases. It is always going to be a losing battle of perfection, as it does not exist, but we can get as close as possible!

 
Ok, guys. I have some videos completed right now.....11 of them actually for one test. it took me a bit to get them right because of the lighting, so I ended up enhancing the lighting with a blue effect so you can see everything much better with minimal contrast. Other than that, they are pretty straight forward and not as professional as I would like, but it works. The testing was done in real-time so any mistakes are on the videos. Point them out to me, and Ill work to correct them. This test was the first one, and Ill show you more another time soon. So, I am going to work on youtubing the vids now, and get them on here asap.

The test is a box test as well as free air. It explains most of what I am doing, though it does not explain the process it took to get to this point for me. I believe this went well, and hope the other will also with the exact same implementation of procedures, to show that they work for any situation. And again, once I find that this does not work, or if YOU find it does not work. Let me know. I can always use some fine tuning of this as again, it is rough staged right now. But this is to show you the differences of matching based on manufacturer specs and real world testing. But Ill show you also, doing it with, as mentioned before, only the manufacturer specs instead of a mix, so you can do this before any purchases are done....hopefully. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif Ill post them up very soon. Its all for a single video right now....1-11.

 
Ok guys. I know these videos are raw and the volume may be fairly insensitive, but the vids were taken without any pre-planning or anything other than between videos to hook things up and such. So, there are 11 short vids. I planned to stop at 9, but I took 2 more to show some extra information that is important. Feel free to criticize them, by all means. I will not be offended. I am jsut doing this to help out in the future for getting the most out of what you have available. More information can be said about the tests, such as picking an amp with sufficient levels to reach voltage, etc. but technically, any amp can power a driver, its just about what kind of draw it has on the amp and how much the amp can actually dish out. Simple concepts, just not explained like this ever before. I hope it helps a little to see how I do things so far in the tests. These vids are not instructional....more so informational. So, if you want me to make instructional ones, Ill do that as well. Now, I am not releasing any information YET. But hopefully soon, when I get more variables tested. But as of now, this was the first test ever done and it worked out ok. Next post will be all the vids.

 
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Moble Enclosurs

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