Time Alignment vs. Phase Shift

[Louisiana_CRX 5,000+ posts]

poast dumperz shud b bannd

I'm too helpful on here ....//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

 

[cablguy184 10+ year member]

Wow !!! Sounds like alot of work just to accomplish correct staging and imageing.

Wouldn't it be easier with correct speaker placement, EQ flat, good amp (with adequate battery power) and a good 2 way component set ??

 

[Louisiana_CRX 5,000+ posts]

Wow !!! Sounds like alot of work just to accomplish correct staging and imageing. Wouldn't it be easier with correct speaker placement, EQ flat, good amp (with adequate battery power) and a good 2 way component set ??

You can get good sound that way as well...//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Sarthos 10+ year member]

That is true. Granted the correct speaker placement requires you to be exactly in between two speakers, with each speaker inside your ear so the resonance frequency is higher than any audible tone. But sure, you can do it! Or you can use an equalizer and time alignment.

 

[whitedragon551 5,000+ posts]

Wow !!! Sounds like alot of work just to accomplish correct staging and imageing. Wouldn't it be easier with correct speaker placement, EQ flat, good amp (with adequate battery power) and a good 2 way component set ??

You can get good sound that way as well...//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Doesnt give you a wide stage though and doesnt put the stage up front. A good EQ and TA is a must for SQ.

 

[Imtjnotu 5,000+ posts]

if there is one thing i love about my eclipse cd7100 it is time alignment

 

[whitedragon551 5,000+ posts]

if there is one thing i love about my eclipse cd7100 it is time alignment

What about the auto PEQ with the mic?

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

Wow !!! Sounds like alot of work just to accomplish correct staging and imageing.

It is.

Wouldn't it be easier with correct speaker placement,

In most cars this is actually more work. Any good install, even one that uses time alignment is going to do this first anyway though.

EQ flat, good amp (with adequate battery power) and a good 2 way component set ??

Leaving the EQ flat is pointless. Now a simple EQ like HU bass and treble controls are useless in a good system and they should be left flat, but an actual EQ is a very useful tool and having one an not using it is dumb. Unless your speakers are capable of perfectly flat response through the audible range, which I can assure you they are not, judicious use of equalization is beneficial. This is after you have corrected any timing and phasing issues with other methods.

 

[ramos 5,000+ posts]

Doesnt give you a wide stage though and doesnt put the stage up front. A good EQ and TA is a must for SQ.

I disagree to a point, stage width and depth can be achieved without TA. It's always better to fix issues mechanically vs. electronically, and then use the TA as icing on the cake to fine tune. TA has other uses besides just getting the center stage in the center of the vehicle //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

Sure does. Getting the fronts to sync up with the subs and adding delay to any rear channels come immediately to mind.

 

[nateberrier 10+ year member]

LOL, this thread is now about over EQing. I could be wrong but I typically look at setting the eq as a way to hammer out the resonating frequencies my car causes and boosting the signal where the speaker lacks, NOT addin more bass and highs to mah system. I use T/A but sorta sparingly. If you have good imaging to begin with then you dont need to **** with everything so much, plus it will always sound better if you physically have everything in the right place rather than trying to play with the HU getting it to sound right. I have also found that I dont like auto TA/EQ, usually sounds better when I do it myself. also will take time to point out that I HAVE MY GAINS LEIK TURNED LESS THAN HALF WAY UP DERRR

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

I do it the simple way buy something with a built in mic and let it take care of all phase and alignment issues...

Ive yet to encounter a mic based auto-EQ that did an adequate job of setting things correctly. At best, they get you in the ballpark. Ive not played with an MS8 though, Im told it does a significantly better job due to its dual mics.

Wow !!! Sounds like alot of work just to accomplish correct staging and imageing. Wouldn't it be easier with correct speaker placement, EQ flat, good amp (with adequate battery power) and a good 2 way component set ??

You can get good sound that way as well...//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

If you happen to own a center cockpit vehicle, whose interior was pretty much designed around speaker placement first and everything else second, with the speakers exactly equidistant from you (all of them), that is infinitely wide or is made of revolutionary sound absorbing materials (including no glass), then and only then might you not see a benefit from sound processing such as an EQ and/or TA.

LOL, this thread is now about over EQing. I could be wrong but I typically look at setting the eq as a way to hammer out the resonating frequencies my car causes and boosting the signal where the speaker lacks, NOT addin more bass and highs to mah system. I use T/A but sorta sparingly. If you have good imaging to begin with then you dont need to **** with everything so much, plus it will always sound better if you physically have everything in the right place rather than trying to play with the HU getting it to sound right. I have also found that I dont like auto TA/EQ, usually sounds better when I do it myself. also will take time to point out that I HAVE MY GAINS LEIK TURNED LESS THAN HALF WAY UP DERRR

You bring up a good point so far not mentioned here. When adjusting your EQ, always cut freqs, never boost. This means setting it backwards from how many people think they should proceed. The 'holes' in your sound become the benchmark, and all other freqs are cut down to it's level. This is because adjusting the EQ up from zero/neutral is the same things as the dreaded 'bass boost' feature we all hate. It boosts the signal at that freq, thereby making it quicker to clip at the amplifier.

If you aren't using well built kick panels for your front stage (mid and tweet there, midbass in door, ideally), then there's virtually no chance you have good staging/imaging to begin with (without processing). If you have your mids and/or tweets mounted to your doors, and you dont use processing, you dont have good S/I to begin with. When matallica's drum solo shifts from the left speaker to the right speaker, if people hear that (obvious) shift they think 'my shit stages like a motherfucker' but the reality is that is not a good measure of staging.

Fine tuning is a relative term. IMO, unless you've built a serious, almost world-class SQ competition worthy system... and if you've done this you dont need me to explain whether or not you did it correctly... your setup needs more than 'fine tuning'. Most people, even most enthusiasts, simply tune for freq response and stereo separation/bias. Many people dont even understand what proper staging is, even many people who think they do. Not talking about you nate, or anyone else I quoted here... just a general statement.

 

[cablguy184 10+ year member]

Doesnt give you a wide stage though and doesnt put the stage up front. A good EQ and TA is a must for SQ.

Too bad you live so far away. I wish you could listen to my truck ...

I have an EQ. but its set flat also.

 

[nateberrier 10+ year member]

Naw I know youre not and I realize my stereo isnt fantastic but I do my best at making sure it makes me happy and is an experience more than a media outlet. I have a deck with a single 24bit dac as the sole processor so i cant hardly talk lol. But most people I help will have their eq at like +4 +3 +3 +2 -1 -2 +4 +5 and im like UHHHHHHH. then fix it and it sounds tons better. Im no pro but most people will go wayyyy too hard in the paint on that EQ and just turn the knob to about what they think the distance is for t/a, I adjusted the T/A for a kid on his deck and he couldnt even tell -_- Sound is subjective though, unless youre competing its what makes you happy, you can read and learn but if you cant tell the difference and youre happy then stop the nonsense.

 

[whitedragon551 5,000+ posts]

Naw I know youre not and I realize my stereo isnt fantastic but I do my best at making sure it makes me happy and is an experience more than a media outlet. I have a deck with a single 24bit dac as the sole processor so i cant hardly talk lol. But most people I help will have their eq at like +4 +3 +3 +2 -1 -2 +4 +5 and im like UHHHHHHH. then fix it and it sounds tons better. Im no pro but most people will go wayyyy too hard in the paint on that EQ and just turn the knob to about what they think the distance is for t/a, I adjusted the T/A for a kid on his deck and he couldnt even tell -_- Sound is subjective though, unless youre competing its what makes you happy, you can read and learn but if you cant tell the difference and youre happy then stop the nonsense.

When you do TA do you use the equation I posted as a baseline and tweak from there?