The big 3 just don't get it, nobody wants American cars.

[kmanian 5,000+ posts]

Unions are antiquated, in todays age they do not promote a fair days work for a fair days wage.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

The culture is already changing. They are trying to slash costs and the union totally gave in on the new hire pay and benefits. They want to peddle the health care costs onto the UAW. I wouldn't be surprised if they open the contract and cut wages.

So you honestly think this will be all they need?

I highly doubt it unfortunately. They will continue to be poorly run and spiral downward until drastic changes are made. GM is in a huge hole right now and its gonna take alot to bring them back to where they are making money instead of losing it. As for the other companies they are not as bad off as GM but they could still use a change in the infrastructure of there companies.
I see the bailout as a bandaid to a much bigger problem at this point.

 

[JBGabriel 10+ year member]

The culture is already changing. They are trying to slash costs and the union totally gave in on the new hire pay and benefits. They want to peddle the health care costs onto the UAW. I wouldn't be surprised if they open the contract and cut wages.

Yeah the problem is that it cost too much to produce things in our country the traditional way. There can no longer be 80k a year workers assembling these vehicles. The price cuts will help but I think the unions wont push over as easy as your saying.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

Unions are antiquated, in todays age they do not promote a fair days work for a fair days wage.

They do promote a safe work enviornment. They are still useful, not sure if for wage negotiation, but factories change faster than OSHA makes rules. Unions are helpful during the interim.

 

[Lugnutz 10+ year member]

So you honestly think this will be all they need?

I don't know. Car sales have plummeted with the recent economy, so they need aid to get them through. Getting rid of the health care costs will go a long way. If they open the contract and cut wages there is nothing more they can do short of calling it quits.

 

[kmanian 5,000+ posts]

What is the problem with letting them go? let the stock drop, some group or companywill pick them up at a highly discounted rate, and restructure them into a viable entity. The market needs the product, it simply needs to be a better product that is produced and delivered to the end user for a better price. Detroit has not reolized that there has been a paradigm shift.

 

[Lugnutz 10+ year member]

Yeah the problem is that it cost too much to produce things in our country the traditional way. There can no longer be 80k a year workers assembling these vehicles. The price cuts will help but I think the unions wont push over as easy as your saying.

They don't make 80k a year //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

 

[kmanian 5,000+ posts]

They do promote a safe work enviornment. They are still useful, not sure if for wage negotiation, but factories change faster than OSHA makes rules. Unions are helpful during the interim.

that sounds like a very inefficient way to keep a safe work enviroment. The money that is wasted under that banner is outragious. Week argument if you ask me.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[Lugnutz 10+ year member]

What is the problem with letting them go? let the stock drop, some group or companywill pick them up at a highly discounted rate, and restructure them into a viable entity. The market needs the product, it simply needs to be a better product that is produced and delivered to the end user for a better price. Detroit has not reolized that there has been a paradigm shift.

If you let them go a million people lose jobs nationwide. I'm sorry but I don't see a scenario where a million jobs lost is helpful.

 

[kmanian 5,000+ posts]

They don't make 80k a year //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

what is the total that a union line worker costs per year, not the take home pay, but all benefits?

 

[Vipervenom18 10+ year member]

They don't make 80k a year //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

Yeah I know I was gonna say... lol

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

I don't know. Car sales have plummeted with the recent economy, so they need aid to get them through. Getting rid of the health care costs will go a long way. If they open the contract and cut wages there is nothing more they can do short of calling it quits.

I see. Do you think $25b is enough?

that sounds like a very inefficient way to keep a safe work enviroment. The money that is wasted under that banner is outragious. Week argument if you ask me.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

It may not be effecient, but it is effective. As for other things Unions help, I am iffy. But I do support their stance on worker safety. If the waste a million bucks to save a life, I am cool with that.

 

[Lugnutz 10+ year member]

what is the total that a union line worker costs per year, not the take home pay, but all benefits?

It varies. The lower seniority workers get $14 an hour and reduced benefits.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

what is the total that a union line worker costs per year, not the take home pay, but all benefits?

The fully burdened labor rate (which includes pensions of retirees) is aprox $70/hr. Very little of that goes as cash wage to the employee.

 

[Lugnutz 10+ year member]

I see. Do you think $25b is enough?


It may not be effecient, but it is effective. As for other things Unions help, I am iffy. But I do support their stance on worker safety. If the waste a million bucks to save a life, I am cool with that.

Shit I don't know. It's enough for them to get rid of their health care costs which should help them.