Sundown SA - Same league as Fi / Incriminator / AA?

yea i'm almost positive the SA and lower lines are chinese but the x z ns and team are built here..
As of this moment all Z, NS, TEAM, and NEO drivers have final assembly in USA -- all also use USA voice coils in those lines. We have done some Z v.4 Rev.1 production in China but none at this time (100% of Rev.2 we have built here).

The X v.1 & v.2 series have both had mixed USA & Chinese production -- currently the X v.2 uses the HP500 coils which are comparable to US coils... and NO they aren't cheaper than US coils; it's simply easier to use a coil sourced in China for factory production. As we move forward & grow our build team I'll move all X v.2 production in-house as well and switch to all US made coils.

SA series on down are all assembled in China. We do final QC inspection here in NC on every single woofer -- currently generating 3 full time jobs.

 

---------- Post added at 09:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:03 AM ----------

 

what did the meter say? PLZ tell me you metered it.. you don't just try to put stupid amounts of power and fart around all day? like say 4 5000s per nightshade? i think if i had access to that Id have single sub setups with 20kw.. lol
154.1 on the dash / legal and 158.0 dB "outlaw" style.

http://www.caraudio.com/forums/sundown-audio/609389-sa-18-spl-testing.html#post8628118

 
As of this moment all Z, NS, TEAM, and NEO drivers have final assembly in USA -- all also use USA voice coils in those lines. We have done some Z v.4 Rev.1 production in China but none at this time (100% of Rev.2 we have built here).
The X v.1 & v.2 series have both had mixed USA & Chinese production -- currently the X v.2 uses the HP500 coils which are comparable to US coils... and NO they aren't cheaper than US coils; it's simply easier to use a coil sourced in China for factory production. As we move forward & grow our build team I'll move all X v.2 production in-house as well and switch to all US made coils.

SA series on down are all assembled in China. We do final QC inspection here in NC on every single woofer -- currently generating 3 full time jobs.

 

---------- Post added at 09:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:03 AM ----------

 

154.1 on the dash / legal and 158.0 dB "outlaw" style.

http://www.caraudio.com/forums/sundown-audio/609389-sa-18-spl-testing.html#post8628118
The truth is out... I was waiting for this response... Nice to know what lines are assembled here..

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 
This post really is full of bad information & ignorance about business / the history of Sundown Audio. I guess not everyone has followed us since the beginning so it happens.

Let's start at the beginning... I started this company with a $50k person-to-person loan in 2006 at 23-years old. There was no flashy "big money" startup... nobody in my family is or ever has been rich. I've worked HARD to build Sundown to what it is today and really worked my butt off to gain additional financing over the years to grow the company. You don't just pop out of nowhere with full US production capacity -- Scott certainly didn't as he had the sale of RE to fund what he does with Fi & AA. And I say... great for him! He should be proud of that & I think they make a good product as well.

For that matter I also think IA makes a great product -- Nick is a personal friend of mine. We each have our own design ideas but certainly respect what one-another has done.

I dare you to find ANY small company in car audio that spends what I do on prototyping and tooling. I'll wait... That is not free by any means. I've had literally 100s of samples produced & expressed in since I founded Sundown to continuously offer improvements to our customers. I am the first "small time" / "founded online" brand to tool an ENTIRE series of frames *AND* and ENTIRE series of cones (THREE series at that... Mega-Roll v.1 and v.2 and the SPL version) all on our own dime... these are not "build house pays for it / sells it to everyone else too" -- I paid 100% of these tooling charges.

This certainly doesn't matter for forum-goers but I've also shifted Sundown more towards focusing on our local dealers. This requires changes in pricing & they appreciate what we've done. Before you go on spouting "Sundown got greedy" you should recognize that you are BUYING from a dealer and our pricing has shifted to increase our dealers margins more than our own. The "got greedy" comments are simply ignorant of the business as a whole.

-----

Now... as for the SA series & why it is the way it is I'll explain & it has been touched on a bit by papermaker.

I wanted a certain level of stiffness for the SA sub to have the perfect balance of mechanical power handling & reasonably low FS to meet my expectations. So I started here with the SA series -- my compliance level. Looking at a 3" coil an aluminum coil is too light & thus requires a suspension that is too soft and simply doesn't agree with my design goals; this results in a driver like a DC Level-3. If you go with a 3" copper coil then it's too heavy & thus results in a driver too stiff for what I was going for; this results in a driver like the American Bass XFL.

Going to a 3" coil also requires an 8" spider for the level of mechanical travel I wanted -- and I was not interested in doing an 8" spider on the 4-spoke for mechanical clearance reasons & the 4-spoke is required to use my preferred venting technique (our tooled ring). Frankly this venting method puts the SA on par with many 3" coil drivers on the market today as well.

In terms of "sound quality" -- I have equipped the SA with a big magnet ID shorting ring. Something rarely found in other drivers it is compared to as well since it's not cheap to do.

It also uses a full 100% Nomex spider -- which costs ALOT more than a poly-cotton spider. We've also equipped the SA spider with full 84-strand tinsel leads (not cheap).

Now... if you don't care about the delicate balancing act that is MY personal design take on a driver at this level... the American Bass subs in this range are certainly very *durable* options especially at their price. If you just want to come out cheap and beat the **** out of a sub they are a great choice. I would 100% of the time ANY DAY put the SA up against them in any form of measurable distortion test, though.

As far as assembling the SA line in the US -- there would be no performance gain from doing so. I have the design down-pat where it's bullet-proof regardless of where assembly takes place.

We also don't have the production capacity in-house due to the massive volume of SA series that we sell nor the capacity to even package that many drivers with US materials (and importing empty packing makes no sense). Touching back on the first section of my post -- sourcing packaging is the other hurdle I need to overcome for full X v.2 production in-house. I've been in touch with several vendors about it and it IS something I plan to do but, again, it's expensive to get started. But something that will be happening hopefully in 2016. This will also speed up packing of the Z, NS, TEAM, etc.

Frankly... if I had unlimited money I would probably add the SA to our US production anyway whether it was 100% financially viable or not just to have an extra level of control. I'd also love to go as far as even making my own cones, spiders, etc... but it's not viable at this time.

Building units below the SA in the US really doesn't make ANY sense in the current economic climate by any measure, though, and I really doubt I'd ever do that UNLESS there was a massive shift in the economic balance of the world.

 
****.. i remember yesteryear when a though 3500 on a 9515 walled off doing 153 was impressive. crazy how much subs have advanced.

im glad to see your having good results with the Chinese build houses. driver im working on now is built here but they are expensive. but i'm **** about how i want um built so i guess its my fault.

keep up the good work man, and don't sell out to the JAPS!

NOTE. i love asian women..

 
This post really is full of bad information & ignorance about business / the history of Sundown Audio. I guess not everyone has followed us since the beginning so it happens.
Let's start at the beginning... I started this company with a $50k person-to-person loan in 2006 at 23-years old. There was no flashy "big money" startup... nobody in my family is or ever has been rich. I've worked HARD to build Sundown to what it is today and really worked my butt off to gain additional financing over the years to grow the company. You don't just pop out of nowhere with full US production capacity -- Scott certainly didn't as he had the sale of RE to fund what he does with Fi & AA. And I say... great for him! He should be proud of that & I think they make a good product as well.

For that matter I also think IA makes a great product -- Nick is a personal friend of mine. We each have our own design ideas but certainly respect what one-another has done.

I dare you to find ANY small company in car audio that spends what I do on prototyping and tooling. I'll wait... That is not free by any means. I've had literally 100s of samples produced & expressed in since I founded Sundown to continuously offer improvements to our customers. I am the first "small time" / "founded online" brand to tool an ENTIRE series of frames *AND* and ENTIRE series of cones (THREE series at that... Mega-Roll v.1 and v.2 and the SPL version) all on our own dime... these are not "build house pays for it / sells it to everyone else too" -- I paid 100% of these tooling charges.

This certainly doesn't matter for forum-goers but I've also shifted Sundown more towards focusing on our local dealers. This requires changes in pricing & they appreciate what we've done. Before you go on spouting "Sundown got greedy" you should recognize that you are BUYING from a dealer and our pricing has shifted to increase our dealers margins more than our own. The "got greedy" comments are simply ignorant of the business as a whole.

-----

Now... as for the SA series & why it is the way it is I'll explain & it has been touched on a bit by papermaker.

I wanted a certain level of stiffness for the SA sub to have the perfect balance of mechanical power handling & reasonably low FS to meet my expectations. So I started here with the SA series -- my compliance level. Looking at a 3" coil an aluminum coil is too light & thus requires a suspension that is too soft and simply doesn't agree with my design goals; this results in a driver like a DC Level-3. If you go with a 3" copper coil then it's too heavy & thus results in a driver too stiff for what I was going for; this results in a driver like the American Bass XFL.

Going to a 3" coil also requires an 8" spider for the level of mechanical travel I wanted -- and I was not interested in doing an 8" spider on the 4-spoke for mechanical clearance reasons & the 4-spoke is required to use my preferred venting technique (our tooled ring). Frankly this venting method puts the SA on par with many 3" coil drivers on the market today as well.

In terms of "sound quality" -- I have equipped the SA with a big magnet ID shorting ring. Something rarely found in other drivers it is compared to as well since it's not cheap to do.

It also uses a full 100% Nomex spider -- which costs ALOT more than a poly-cotton spider. We've also equipped the SA spider with full 84-strand tinsel leads (not cheap).

Now... if you don't care about the delicate balancing act that is MY personal design take on a driver at this level... the American Bass subs in this range are certainly very *durable* options especially at their price. If you just want to come out cheap and beat the **** out of a sub they are a great choice. I would 100% of the time ANY DAY put the SA up against them in any form of measurable distortion test, though.

As far as assembling the SA line in the US -- there would be no performance gain from doing so. I have the design down-pat where it's bullet-proof regardless of where assembly takes place.

We also don't have the production capacity in-house due to the massive volume of SA series that we sell nor the capacity to even package that many drivers with US materials (and importing empty packing makes no sense). Touching back on the first section of my post -- sourcing packaging is the other hurdle I need to overcome for full X v.2 production in-house. I've been in touch with several vendors about it and it IS something I plan to do but, again, it's expensive to get started. But something that will be happening hopefully in 2016. This will also speed up packing of the Z, NS, TEAM, etc.

Frankly... if I had unlimited money I would probably add the SA to our US production anyway whether it was 100% financially viable or not just to have an extra level of control. I'd also love to go as far as even making my own cones, spiders, etc... but it's not viable at this time.

Building units below the SA in the US really doesn't make ANY sense in the current economic climate by any measure, though, and I really doubt I'd ever do that UNLESS there was a massive shift in the economic balance of the world.
The biggest thing IMO. Most sundown buys are new to a higher end of preformance. This underrated stuff gets old. They are using cheap amps or have no idea how dynamics work.

Heck look at all the $50 kicker comps running on all knobs to the right boss amps for years. That's durable in my mind but we call kicker junk.

 
The biggest thing IMO. Most sundown buys are new to a higher end of preformance. This underrated stuff gets old. They are using cheap amps or have no idea how dynamics work.
Heck look at all the $50 kicker comps running on all knobs to the right boss amps for years. That's durable in my mind but we call kicker junk.
I think you'll find less of us in the industry with experience would call the "majors" a junk product. The longer I've been around the more respect I have for the quality major names like JL, Alpine, and Kicker. They know their market & they serve it well.

I work alot of my ratings around the assumption that the subs will be connected to junky / dirty amps @ 0.5 ohm and clipped heavily... keeps returns to dealers down. They appreciate it.

 
Sundown SA uses the same build house as american bass (the owner even posted the build house during his Chinese tour last year).
"to say its a great sounding woofer is not accurate. one thing it is is a decent woofer for a low price.." This quote confuses me. The only SQ I mentioned was the XR which was intentional designed to be a good sounding woofer (Its the owners Bob's favorite subwoofer for that exact reason)

The SA and the XFL are good output with average sound quality (I don't see what the point of your post is ? I compared two similar subwoofers both in terms of sound and price and now your going on some rant about Chinese build houses ?)
B come one i really have to point it out. its called american bass. yet none of it is american.. kmsl.. ive spoken with bob many years ago. hes a good guy. i just think he could do some american builds.. i know times are tuff but you gotta be proud to be american and want to use some american parts.

 
B come one i really have to point it out. its called american bass. yet none of it is american.. kmsl.. ive spoken with bob many years ago. hes a good guy. i just think he could do some american builds.. i know times are tuff but you gotta be proud to be american and want to use some american parts.
Bobs not even American.

 
B come one i really have to point it out. its called american bass. yet none of it is american.. kmsl.. ive spoken with bob many years ago. hes a good guy. i just think he could do some american builds.. i know times are tuff but you gotta be proud to be american and want to use some american parts.
Bobs all about his $$$ he ain't ever going to be US build house lol. bobs a good guy though

 
Do you think it's built well enough to be slammed every day and hold up like an Fi or Incrimintor? I'm talking a single sub setup like yours that's designed to shake things apart, considering it's one sub.
I know it gets loud, a lot of these woofers can hit insane numbers on one note wonder builds, but just as a daily ground pounder does hold the same water?

Just curious on opinions on it.
Yes, I would feel comfortable with a single sub setup using an SA. For the longest time I had a single SA 10 on a Fosgate T1000-BDCP in my F250. Box was close to recommended specs but tuned a bit lower. It surprised tons of people when they found out it was only 1 10. Again, it's really going to depend on your power to see which one is a better fit. I would say every sub you listed could have comparable results. Whichever sub you ran wouldn't break Physics and you will always be limited by power handling. I personally wouldn't consider any of the choices a ground pounder setup (I don't consider mine a ground pounder setup), but any one has the potential to get decently loud and definitely show you were you need to deaden or reinforce your vehicle. See how much clean power you can get with your budget and make a decision from there.

 
I don't care what you say or think.
thanks for the information. i really care about you man. i hope you like me back.. kmsl

btw thanks jacob for clearing that up.. keep up the hard work..

 

---------- Post added at 11:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:24 AM ----------

 

Not possible.
you mean impossible?

 

---------- Post added at 11:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:25 AM ----------

 

oh oh.. sorry bob and americanbass. at least the products are decent.. props

 
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