suggestions/advice on upgrade

[iamaaron]

at the moment i have 2 jl 12w3's on an alpine m110, alpine type r components on a rf prime 600 4 ch with a pioneer avhx5700 head unit.

i had these memphis 6x9s that were dirt cheap because i didn't think for a second the components alone could handle the front stage--i was wrong. the 6x9's sounded terrible, disconnected, not a problem after adjusting time alignment on the hu.

anyway.

i have my car completely deadened w/CCF over butyl/alum. 100mil. i enjoy every ride i take, don't get me wrong, but i'm looking for more output on the low end of the frequency spectrum. i have been looking hard at 2 alpine type r 15"s and scooping another m110 so each gets their own amp. i was strongly considering a single sundown x15 v.2 and scv-1500.

it'll be a couple months before i actually pull the trigger, and i was just out measuring my cargo space (i like to plan VERY far ahead for this stuff) and based on what i'm looking to do i don't think i have the space to properly stash 2 15s/1 15 that requires as many cubes as 2. ive passively combed through forums for a long time, but i get lost in the back-and-forth that occurs about "what is/what is not" and never get any kind of information that really resonates in my head.

cone area = important

excursion = important

enclosure = important

voice coil diameter = important

clean power = important

i get it. i REALLY do.

i drive a 2000 honda accord ex-l v6 sedan. i am going to build my own enclosure for whatever i get, and i REALLY want to retain my spare tire space. i am very frustrated because i know there's enough room in theory, but there are bracing bars below the rear deck that restrict head room for the box, and if i use what i can to fit an optimum enclosure in there it will consume my entire trunk. i am planning on using fiberglass for various objectives (reinforcement/walls of enclosure itself) on this build, so irregular shape is not a concern.

i REALLY want to FEEL the low frequencies, but also be able to set a crossover at around 100hz for balance on the mid range. i like the w3s a lot, but they don't reproduce low frequencies that i'm looking for. i don't have any intention of competing for any reason, i just want to feel those LOW lows in my seat, i want the punchy 40-60hz range to beat up my sternum. my car is ready for more and will not resonate and cause distortion and i want clean low end that will chatter my teeth.

FINALLY.

my actual question:

a) are there any 12s (or aspects of 12s) that, if i got 2, would give me that which i am looking for?

b) would a single 15 (aspects as well) give it to me, or would i need 2 for the sound/feel i'm looking for?

i word vomited because i want my situation to be very clear to anyone that pays me mind. i've done calculations on enclosure volume for the 2 alpine 15s and i just don't think i can house the cubes necessary to give them the space they need (let alone the x15s--i was thinking 2 of them for a second on the scv-3000). i understand t/s parameters to a point, but i certainly am no expert.

i want to make the right decision. i joined this forum, which is a first for me, because i refuse to be "that guy" that goes into my local shop and continually ask questions without any intention of giving them a cent--it's a bad look.

sub price range:

amp price range:

(*-amazon pricing, NOT retail)

thanks for reading all that, even if you don't respond!

Click to read more...

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

Tell us about the box you have the W3s in.

 

[iamaaron]

Tell us about the box you have the W3s in.

dual enclosure, individual chambers, about 1.5ft^3 each tuned a little high at 36hz.

 

[JoshC 10+ year member]

dual enclosure, individual chambers, about 1.5ft^3 each tuned a little high at 36hz.

Subs are suffocating, they cant breath in that 1.5 box. A new box with 2.15-2.2 per sub net @ 34 will sound much better.

 

[iamaaron]

Subs are suffocating, they cant breath in that 1.5 box. A new box with 2.15-2.2 per sub net @ 34 will sound much better.

but would that seriously make the difference between what i have now and vibrating my sternum and chattering teeth?

 

[macsdad 10+ year member]

Your enclosure can make, or break you system dude. You would be surprised the difference it would make.

 

[iamaaron]

Your enclosure can make, or break you system dude. You would be surprised the difference it would make.

jl specs give 1.75 cubes--i know the tuning is high--but i guess i've only been down this rabbit hole for a year and a half. i find that people i ask, or info i come across, state that in order to get REAL low 15's are that end all. i'm under the impression that even though my w3s aren't junk, they're still 12s. they still have a smaller diameter voice coil than the drivers i'm considering. lower xmax. all signs point to: even with an enclosure that's optimal, i won't get that deep resonance i'm looking for.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

jl specs give 1.75 cubes--i know the tuning is high--but i guess i've only been down this rabbit hole for a year and a half. i find that people i ask, or info i come across, state that in order to get REAL low 15's are that end all. i'm under the impression that even though my w3s aren't junk, they're still 12s. they still have a smaller diameter voice coil than the drivers i'm considering. lower xmax. all signs point to: even with an enclosure that's optimal, i won't get that deep resonance i'm looking for.

I can bounce my windshield at 30hz with a single 8. In a closed up trunk of a mid size sedan.

You are talking to the wrong people. JL is mainstream. They give box specs for that crowd that wants the smallest box possible and don't know any better than what a prefab sounds like.

Give each one 2 cubes. Tune at 32hz with 30sq inches of port.

 

[UsAmpsFreak]

W3's can only reproduce the frequencies that the box allows them to. Make your box bigger with a good port and they will go as low as the nastiest 18's you've ever heard. I would do this before spending any money on other stuff.

 

[iamaaron]

W3's can only reproduce the frequencies that the box allows them to. Make your box bigger with a good port and they will go as low as the nastiest 18's you've ever heard. I would do this before spending any money on other stuff.

i appreciate your point. i am also planning on upgrading cables to 1/0awg and scooping a secondary battery with an isolator along with distribution blocks to have better wire management, so your suggestion helps.

 

[iamaaron]

I can bounce my windshield at 30hz with a single 8. In a closed up trunk of a mid size sedan.
You are talking to the wrong people. JL is mainstream. They give box specs for that crowd that wants the smallest box possible and don't know any better than what a prefab sounds like.

Give each one 2 cubes. Tune at 32hz with 30sq inches of port.

duly noted. i've set up my drivers in winISD but i don't think i'm doing it right because the specs its giving me make zero sense. i've been trying to gather as much knowledge as i can over time so that i would never have to ask for help, but here i am regardless. i guess i'm just concerned about the margin for error when constructing an enclosure. i have no idea how much wiggle room there actually is.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

duly noted. i've set up my drivers in winISD but i don't think i'm doing it right because the specs its giving me make zero sense. i've been trying to gather as much knowledge as i can over time so that i would never have to ask for help, but here i am regardless. i guess i'm just concerned about the margin for error when constructing an enclosure. i have no idea how much wiggle room there actually is.

There are people here that will build and ship for not much more than the cost of wood.

Winisd is great if you are designing a box to play in a huge open field.

 

[iamaaron]

There are people here that will build and ship for not much more than the cost of wood.
Winisd is great if you are designing a box to play in a huge open field.

if winISD isn't the ideal utility, is there a more appropriate tool i can use to plan this out?

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

if winISD isn't the ideal utility, is there a more appropriate tool i can use to plan this out?

Trial and error.

Space makes bass.

Know your equipment.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

but would that seriously make the difference between what i have now and vibrating my sternum and chattering teeth?

Sounds like your box is a prefab. prefabs generally lie about the specs, its more likely to be 1.5 gross per chamber not NET which is the number after port and subwoofer displacement(space they take up) So a proper box would have a world of difference. You can also do a 4th order bandpass if you want your windshield to flex. I've seen a pair of W3s in a proper 4th order that slam lows **** well and still sounds good on music.

jl specs give 1.75 cubes--i know the tuning is high--but i guess i've only been down this rabbit hole for a year and a half. i find that people i ask, or info i come across, state that in order to get REAL low 15's are that end all. i'm under the impression that even though my w3s aren't junk, they're still 12s. they still have a smaller diameter voice coil than the drivers i'm considering. lower xmax. all signs point to: even with an enclosure that's optimal, i won't get that deep resonance i'm looking for.

size doesnt affect how low you get. thats a complete myth, its just easier to get louder across the whole frequency spectrum because of cone area thats all. How low you get is from enclosure design. You've been getting misinformation from other ppl.