Subwoofer Amp UPGRADE Advice really needed.

[quackhead 10+ year member]

That Kenwood just may not like a 2 ohm load period. Some companies are better known for one line of equipment over another. And some things never change.

 

[Exist_ential 10+ year member]

OP, i truly believe that you need to return those subs. Then sell off the old kickers IN THE BOX and the kenwood amp. take all that money and get 1 12" DVC 4ohm sub with an RMS of 800w or better and a mono amp that will do 600w or higher at 2ohm then have "your guy" build you a proper box.

i personally have nothing against kicker, never used them, but even in my limited experience i think you would be very impressed with the output you are going to get going from 2 mediocre subs possibly wired wrong to a much simpler setup with 1 sub, mono amp, box that will fit your size needs and more importantly the subs size requirements.

first setup ---- 2 12" infinity 300w dvc subs in a sealed prefab (too small) box improperly powered by a kicker 600.1 amp (i actually had these wired as svc because i didnt know any better)

2nd setup (current) -- 1 Skar VVX 12 D4 custom ported box tuned to 33hz (designed by @OmegaBunny and built by me) powered properly by an Avionixx CXD2800M @ 2ohm

i couldn't (and still can't) believe the difference in the amount of bass produced by this one sub not to mention the exponential difference in the quality of the bass being produced.

If you want to use brandsmart to build credit by something other than car audio from them.

 

[Jaguar 10+ year member]

@neogen. I might take them back. I'm going to test them out for a while it costs me basically nothing. They hit hard in the car, my only
concern right now is if I were to keep upgrading subwoofers I would have to install some dynamat or weather stripping. Outside too much
rattling. I got the license plate down key, but the trunk needs work.


@quackhead
The way my subwoofers are wired now. Each the same...

Some fosgate wiring.

The wiring on the amp. By the way, for some reason the fan was not turning on, could be the reason the amp was getting so hot within 20m of cp.
Further testing required. Perhaps one of the wires were loose. I can't remember hearing the fan going since the new install. I fixed it though.

Subwoofers are not connected together by any wire inside. They are connected separately.. and lead to the amp l/r l/r as shown in the photo above.

........................................

 

[Exist_ential 10+ year member]

you would seriously be amazed at the quality and quantity you will be able to achieve with with 1 12 or 15 on a proper mono amp in a proper box.

believe me the reason i have over 500 posts between 03/12 and now has been 60% asking questions so i didn't fuck anything up or waste my money when i decided to get a "real" system to replace what i thought at the time was the shit

 

[quackhead 10+ year member]

@Jaguar

Looks like everything is wired parallel to the right and left channels for 2ohms/ch. they should be getting roughly 2.5x as much power as the old 8 ohm subs wired the same way. That fan would certainly help thermal issues....the old KW is working double time now.

 

[quackhead 10+ year member]

you could parallel wire the old subs to the amp bridged to mono so the amp would be producing the same power it is now on the new ones...if you did return them. I bet since these are just one step above the old ones, the sonic differences would be nil...especially once these new ones get broke in.

 

[Jaguar 10+ year member]

I'm seriously considering the things you guys say, don't think I'm not, I appreciate all the advice I can get. If you say I could probably get better sound with one 12" with the proper amp and proper box it, seems hard to believe, but there must be some truth to it. I spent some part of today resealing the inside's of the box properly with wood glue. Took me a while but It was worth it. I also painted the inside of the box black for the hell of it. I do plan on getting a new MDF box, and an Amp.

I'm not sure if I'll keep these subs yet, they hit hard, and they were not that expensive ($100.00 each). The subs I used to have (actually I still have them) Kicker Comp 12"s hit relatively hard considering the RMS was 150/300 Peak, but the Kicker CompVR (newer release not the white tops, black tops) hit harder without a doubt. I'm literally vibrating, the entire of the inside of the car is vibrating hard, but I of course cannot wait to achieve the next level in bass. When I get the new amp and box I will be able to tell the difference I'm sure. Any recommendations for a Class D 1 Ohm 600Watt amp. Or a PROPER box for these subwoofers in particular?

2 Kicker CompVR 12"s (newer version not white tops, black tops) 400RMS/800PEAK

CompVR | KICKER

 

 

Quackhead suggested I could get an even higher wattage amp for the next time I upgrade my subs, I suppose I would have to do some parallel - series wiring if that happens. These subs are 4 ohm, I believe the way they are wired now are 2 ohm. I'm just not certain about the specifics. If I go to my audio guy he's sure to give me something good, but I'm not sure about the names he's offering. I would definitely have to put some heavy research into a new amp before I bought it. With the subs, it does help to do your research, but from my experience I think Kicker I not bad. Definitely new ground out there to conquer. One day I want to hit the pavement hard, and Im not talking about me, I'm talking about my system.

 

 

 

you would seriously be amazed at the quality and quantity you will be able to achieve with with 1 12 or 15 on a proper mono amp in a proper box. it

So I should be looking for a class d 1ohm mono amp? what about the wattage. How about one or two recommendations. Can you recommend a proper box as well? Thanks.

you could parallel wire the old subs to the amp bridged to mono so the amp

So I should be looking for a class d 1ohm mono amp? what about the wattage. How about one or two recommendations. Can you recommend a proper box as well? Thanks.

 

[quackhead 10+ year member]

My reason for suggesting a 1 ohm amp is that you can buy a 2000watt rms 1ohm stable monoblock that would drive the speakers you have at higher impedance (4 ohms). This would: A) give your system headroom to avoid clipping at transient peaks; B) allow system flexibility for future upgrades without having to worry about buying another amp later.

Example 1:

MB Quart ONX1.2000D Class D Amplifiers at Onlinecarstereo.com

Power Output:

650W RMS x 1 @ 4 Ohms

1300W RMS x 1 @ 2 Ohms

2000W RMS x 1 @ 1 Ohm

Example 2:

WoofersEtc.com - 16-MC1.2500 - Memphis 2500 x 1 Class D Sub Amplifier

Power Output:

RMS Power 4 Ohm(w) : 625W x 1

RMS Power 2 Ohm(w) : 1250W x 1

RMS Power 1 Ohm(w) : 2500W x 1

As far as a box for the CompVR, I cannot find T/S readily available, but a glance at their site recommends 2.25^ per sub, personally, I would tune that to 30Hz.

Since they require alot of airspace, I would recommend 1 D4 12 or 15" sub in a custom built box that would take the 1200 watts rms at the 2 ohms stated above as an upgrade.

As a FACT, there are MANY single 12" subs capable of flat out embarrassing the two you have, IN THE RIGHT BOX.

Also, as a side note, electrical upgrades would need to be in consideration as amp usage upgrades are utilized in the future.

 

[Jaguar 10+ year member]

Quackhead, thanks for the monoblock amp suggestions. I'm not sure I'm ready to upgrade to a 2000w though. My headlights dim a little as it is now, even though I have the Big 3 Upgrade installed. I think a 600w - 1000w 1 ohm Class D monoblock amp is all I really need. That and a proper MDF box. Im not prepared to have new a yellow top or a new alternator to make up the difference. Amp is staying pretty cool now that the fan is on.

As far as a box for the CompVR, I cannot find T/S readily available, but a glance at their site recommends 2.25^ per sub, personally, I would tune that to 30Hz.

When you have a moment could you expain what T/S means.

 

Could you explain your comment about 2.25 per sub meant.

 

How do I tune it to 30Hz? Tune what to 30Hz?

 

[snyderd758 10+ year member]

There are guy on this and other car audio forums that will design and build a box for you. Its kinda sounding like what you should do the box is very important to the overall sound of the subs. t/s is basically the specs of a subwoofer and determines the type of box you should put it in for the most part. The 2.25 he stated is 2.25ft3 the size of the enclosure that kicker recommends rather large especially if it is going in a trunk. 30hz is what he is recommending you tune a ported box to meaning it will have an emphasis on that frequency you usually tune low 30's for a good mix of sound quality and sound pressure level. As far as your amp getting hot i used to run an alpine mrp m1000 which are notorious for getting hot but it never skipped a beat never shut down or let out a whimper. If your happy for now with your setup roll with it for a bit and save up for a little higher quality gear while at the same time learning everything you can.

 

[Jaguar 10+ year member]

The 2.25 he stated is 2.25ft3 the size of the enclosure that kicker recommends rather large especially if it is going in a trunk.

Could someone send me a link to the site where Kicker reccomends the sizes of enclosures. Kickers official sub-woofer boxes are actually very small for the CompVR's 12''s, so I'm a little confused when you say the ones I should use are very large. I think perhaps we might be getting a little to technical on this.

30hz is what he is recommending you tune a ported box to meaning it will have an emphasis on that frequency you usually tune low 30's for a good mix of sound quality and sound pressure level.

Excuse me I'm excited to learn about these specifications, but I am also relatively new to the terms. Tune a ported box? Is this something I can do, or do you mean to say some boxes are tuned to certain frequencies.

If your happy for now with your setup roll with it for a bit and save up for a little higher quality gear while at the same time learning everything you can.

This is probably a great Idea, I'll get the box first, and save for the amp. I want to get a good mono-block amp at a certain wattage 1000rms, but they are expensive.

 

[snyderd758 10+ year member]

CompVR | KICKER

 

[quackhead 10+ year member]

Quackhead, thanks for the monoblock amp suggestions. I'm not sure I'm ready to upgrade to a 2000w though. My headlights dim a little as it is now, even though I have the Big 3 Upgrade installed. I think a 600w - 1000w 1 ohm Class D monoblock amp is all I really need. That and a proper MDF box. Im not prepared to have new a yellow top or a new alternator to make up the difference. Amp is staying pretty cool now that the fan is on.
When you have a moment could you expain what T/S means.

 

Could you explain your comment about 2.25 per sub meant.

 

How do I tune it to 30Hz? Tune what to 30Hz?

snyderd758 basically explained the latter part of your post..T/S is the Theale Small perameters which are usually readily available and used to determine the box size, and tuning frequency limits , if applicable. T/S data is used as input data for a variety of programs used to calculate and model drivers in their optimum environment.

2.25^ is the amount of airspace recommended on the Kicker website for each of the subs you have...2.25 Square Feet

30hz tune is the tuning frequency of the port in a vented enclosure. The box you have has a rectangle port centered between the two subs. The port area(square inches of port opening) and port length determine the port frequency...for simplicity sake, picture the simple act of whistling through your lips. The sound and volume fluctuate depending on how much air you exhale and how you purse your lips, controlling the air flow.. same concept. As the sub moves in, it forces air out of the port. The T/S parameter data tells whatever program you use how much air is possible to be moved and with how much force, which calculates the frequency at which the air moving out of the port resonates based on the dimensions of the port and "bv", box volume. Having said that, it is possible to calculate box and porting using formulas, enough t/s and pen and paper..I don't do that..lol

Have you been watching your subs as they are playing and sometimes on the lower bass the sub looks like it is still, or barely moving, yet you still hear it playing loud?

This is when you are playing them at the tuning frequency. the port is taking over, creating the sound you hear right near that port tune. As the sub plays lower than the tuning frequency, the cone begins to move in and out more and more or "unload". Above the tuning frequency, the port acted like a choke, holding back pressure and keeping the cone moving in a controlled environment. The lower it plays below the tuning, the more uncontrolled the sub becomes, to the point where it looks like it is flapping madly..this can be death in some situations or over time in others, depending on the sub used and how hard it is driven below tuning.. This is why you see huge motor structures, big tall surrounds and massive spider assemblies attached to extremely long voice coils... this is also why most bass amps you buy have subsonic filtering to attenuate the signal fed to the sub below tuning frequency, usually at a very steep slope(36 db/oct).

As far as the Class D monoblock bass amp, I did not suggest you run 2000 watts through your electrical system, I told you to be prepared to do so, as you made upgrades over time to your system. I recommended you go ahead and purchase an amp that would suit your needs as you made future sub stage upgrades, instead of buying a 1 ohm 600 watt amp, buy a 4 ohm 600 watt amp, since the subs you use will provide that impedance. A class D amp producing 600 watts at 4 ohms will not stress your electrical any more than a class D amp producing 600 watts at 1ohm , given they share similar efficiency. At least you will not be requiring the amp to huff and puff all it can for a measly 600 watts. The way amps are rated, you have to try and find a "2000 watt" amp to get 600 watts at 4 ohms. It will run with less effort and it will be the cleanest sound the amp is capable of producing...don't be stupid, play smart.

 

[Jaguar 10+ year member]

@quackhead. I don't know what to say, thanks so much for taking the time to write this out. Somethings are still unclear, but thanks to the *info*
you took time to provide and help a newer guy out, Im sure to pick up on things much faster. I'm going to study this for at least 1-2 hours today.

 

[quackhead 10+ year member]

[quote name='Jaguar']@quackhead. I don't know what to say, thanks so much for taking the time to write this out. Somethings are still unclear, but thanks to the *info*
you took time to provide and help a newer guy out, Im sure to pick up on things much faster. I'm going to study this for at least 1-2 hours today. [/QUOTE]
no problem, but do understand I gave you a watered down version of design and tune. I must also mention what i accidentally left out, Each Speaker..from subwoofers to tweeters have their own individual T/S perameters .