Subwoofer Amp UPGRADE Advice really needed.

[Jaguar 10+ year member]

A lot of negativity in "general" about Kicker, but at least to my limited experience I really don't know why. It's probably because a lot of people hate to go mainstream. I'm sure there are better SQ/SPL subwoofers out there for a better price. But I'm really pleased at what Kicker has done. The recent upgrade to the CompVr's 12"s 400RMS/800PEAK from the standard Kicker 12" Comp subwoofers has made a noticeable difference in bass quality and the force in which they Kick even though I'm still using an amp which has them running about 175RMS a piece. I'm so pleased, but I might take these back and get the Comp Vx's 800RMS/1500Watt Peak. I still have a couple of weeks to decide. Kicker hit's nice and hard, I don't care what anyone says. My only concern is having my windows explode at this point. When I'm in my house and my car is outside, I feel like the system Is in the house.

 

[quackhead 10+ year member]

Jag, I put alot of heart into trying to explain things on this thread. I am not an engineer, a competitor, or anything special...just an enthusiast as yourself. I am 42 years old and have learned a lot through trial, error and a few wasted $$. What brand of gear you choose is your business. I see Kicker everywhere. They work. Ppl swear by them. I do not. IMO, the majority of people who swear by them have not used anything else....this applies to other brands as well.

I am confused as to your logic in the choices of equipment upgrades. Based on the info given, you have yet to experience the honest output your original 8 ohm subs were capable of. Based on info given, the weakest link is your Amplifier. Based on the 800watt rms (2x400wrms)power input of you new subs, you need a amp capable of 800 watts rms output at the cleanest load possible. (I am matching up sub/amp rms to keep it simple) Amp ratings supply info on many of the operating features of said amp. like THD or Total Harmonic Distortion . A common THD on a Class D monblock is .5 % THD. In most cases, as the impedance drops, the THD increases. In other words, a .5% THD at 4 ohm load may be 5% at a 1 ohm load. Some companies get this from a 1 watt output, and others use the THD avg for full rated rms output. People down alot of mainstream companies because of a lot of reasons. I suggested a guy look at a Alphasonik amp yesterday, another chimed in on how they were "always low budget junk". LOL I guess he was thinking of Visonik. Alphasonik is one of, if not the oldest 12v audio amplifier manufacturer in the US. Their amps are some of the cleanest and most powerful A/B amps built, but they are finicky to voltage fluctuations and actually come with a dash mounted idiot proof voltage meter. LOL

A lot of the stuff praised around here is some of the ugliest and dirtiest equipment available...but it works under some of the most demanding conditions imagined. Get this, these fools around here actually take a wire from a 120v wall socket and hook it to a sub to watch it literally go up in flames...and if it don't they put it in their cars..LOL. Listen to some of them... read the stickeys here...and God Bless you, Jaguar.

 

[quackhead 10+ year member]

This is an example of what i was referring to earlier, it is useful to understand what some of the better amps are capable of producing. I do not even know if this company is still in business, they, like a few other pioneers in the 12v business were wiped clean when they could not keep up with the koreans and chinese who reverse engineered their board designs and flooded the market with cheap copies of their own designs....really a sad deal the we Americans let that happen to our own.

What is really sad, is the cheap crap available now days is dirty, overpriced copies of the real deal. and the real deal is taunted as junk.

Alphasonik PMA600HCE 1800 Watts, PMA Series 2-Channel High Current Car Amplifier

Look at this:

show me a class D that can accomplish the following with .5% THD at power. They require electrical upgrades at a lower impedance, just like the cass D

Alphasonik PMA600HCE...a true 600 watt 1/2 ohm stable amp.

Power:

300 Watts X 2 @ 4 Ohms

550 Watts X 2 @ 2 Ohms

900 Watts X 2 @ 1 Ohm

950 Watts X 1 @ 4 Ohms

1550 Watts X 1 @ 2 Ohms

1800 Watts X 1 @ 1 Ohm

Dimensions:

9 1/16" W/ 2 5/8" H/ 19 3/4" L

Specs:

Power Fuse: 150A

 

[Jaguar 10+ year member]

@quackhead you've been the one of few people here to try and talk some sense to a novice car-audio enthusiast. Your right on every account, I know for a fact that
Kicker could not possibly be the best spl/(definitely not sq, although amp settings help somewhat) subwoofers out there. I am definitely going to get a class d monoblock amp that can handle 800-1000 watts. I've been watching quite a few videos and familiarizing myself, studying up on the terminology. It's starting to dawn on me how important specific ratios/percentages of amps, subwoofers, boxes, voltage, impedance can mean if they are harmonized. There has never really been an immediacy for me to acquire a truly experienced car-audio enthusiasts level, one in part because my system sounds good, but yes I am beginning to truly understand what I think I am hearing could sound better (mainly because of distortion at peak levels). The bass in my car feels like it's about to knock my head off, I remember when I used to look into the back mirror and see the lights at night vibrate, since I've chosen to upgrade my speakers alone they are complete circles (the lights). I cannot imagine myself venturing to experience a deeper level of sound without me being to be able to remain in the car unless it would have to do with the over-all sound quality coming from the subwoofer distortion at certain peaks and drops at specific decibels. I'm going to get a new class d mono-block amp that can handle 800-100 watts, I will probably have to upgrade my battery as well so the rms will remain in a continuous even flow of voltage. I see so many videos of people putting their keys on the hood of their car and cars vibrating like tin cans, to me they look like a bunch of idiots. Not for me (secure your cars guys, man overboard!) Overall I seek to reach a level of solid sound quality, when I get there I'm sure to realize what mistakes I've made, this may take some time, but much less because of people like you who have helped me on the board.

 

[quackhead 10+ year member]

For clarification, I was not suggesting ppl run out and buy the amp from my previous post..that type is not suitable for everyone. Class D has been a novel breakthrough in allowing people access to efficient raw power on the cheap..but like a lot of things, one usually sacrifices one thing to gain another.

 

[Jaguar 10+ year member]

Can I throw this question out. I was adjusting my amp settings, and I noticed a HPF and LPF on it I believe with an off option. It's set to HPF, but I also have a HPF / LPF on my Sony XPlod CDX-GT700HD which I have each set to 80Hz to protect my speakers from bursting. Should I change these settings? Advice please, thanks.

For clarification, I was not suggesting ppl run out and buy the amp from my previous post..that type is not suitable for everyone. Class D has been a novel breakthrough in allowing people access to efficient raw power on the cheap..but like a lot of things, one usually sacrifices one thing to gain another.

Hey guys, any recommendations of some popular mass produced (or even non mainstream amps) I should stay away from you can name off the top of your heads? Im not really familiar with any of these Amps. Names like Hifonics (however it's spelled), pyramid, boss, planet audio, crunch. Can you give me a circle of names of which amps I'm safer to stay in if your unable to name ones I should stay out of. Thanks.

Some amps In the circle I am researching that look Ok are JL Audio, Diamond, Kicker, Rockford Fosgate.

 

[quackhead 10+ year member]

[quote name='Jaguar']@quackhead you've been the one of few people here to try and talk some sense to a novice car-audio enthusiast. Your right on every account, I know for a fact that
Kicker could not possibly be the best spl/(definitely not sq, although amp settings help somewhat) subwoofers out there. I am definitely going to get a class d monoblock amp that can handle 800-1000 watts. I've been watching quite a few videos and familiarizing myself, studying up on the terminology. It's starting to dawn on me how important specific ratios/percentages of amps, subwoofers, boxes, voltage, impedance can mean if they are harmonized. There has never really been an immediacy for me to acquire a truly experienced car-audio enthusiasts level, one in part because my system sounds good, but yes I am beginning to truly understand what I think I am hearing could sound better (mainly because of distortion at peak levels). The bass in my car feels like it's about to knock my head off, I remember when I used to look into the back mirror and see the lights at night vibrate, since I've chosen to upgrade my speakers alone they are complete circles (the lights). I cannot imagine myself venturing to experience a deeper level of sound without me being to be able to remain in the car unless it would have to do with the over-all sound quality coming from the subwoofer distortion at certain peaks and drops at specific decibels. I'm going to get a new class d mono-block amp that can handle 800-100 watts, I will probably have to upgrade my battery as well so the rms will remain in a continuous even flow of voltage. I see so many videos of people putting their keys on the hood of their car and cars vibrating like tin cans, to me they look like a bunch of idiots. Not for me (secure your cars guys, man overboard!) Overall I seek to reach a level of solid sound quality, when I get there I'm sure to realize what mistakes I've made, this may take some time, but much less because of people like you who have helped me on the board.[/QUOTE]

as i have said repeatedly, if you want to utilize what you have, move the KW7205 to the mid/highs. It would be a start to a balanced system. It is rated for 1% THD at rated power when in stereo 4ohm @ 170w rms . You get what you pay for there.

WoofersEtc.com - KAC-9105D - Kenwood Mono 1800 Watt Amplifier
I would recommend this on the subs. Either the new ones @ 1 ohm or the old ones at 4 ohm, it will match either one.

I'll show you what I would recommend for a decent, good sounding budget system built around the your new Kicker subs, and why..I am smiling as I type this, thinking back to @1990, Kicker was always known for their subs in the early days. The loudest vehicle I can remember actually hearing was the Kicker Astro mini-van. This thing had like 8 or 9 (9 IIRC) 18's and a whole wall of Linear Power amps in the back. Linear Power made the best amps of all time, i do believe. Kicker went downhill after they shifted focus from speakers to amps, IMO. Then you had the Precision Power Aerostar mini-van showcasing a van full of pure Audio Art. Orion had their mini-van full of the baddest amps built, Rockford Fosgate had a mini-van (one of the very few who excelled at amps and speakers, IMO) that some said would blow you away. These little vans would ride from competition to competition building their reputations all along the way.

My Idea (just mine, nobody else, lol)of a nice little budget ($400)mid/high/sub amp set up from what I have found:
Mid/High 4 ch amp:
WoofersEtc.com - S580.4 - Precision Power 580W Sedona Series 4 Channel Amplifier

WoofersEtc.com - S1300.1D -Precision Power 1300W Sedona Series Class D Monoblock Amplifier (Class D, the A/B reference is a type-o)

 

[Jaguar 10+ year member]

WoofersEtc.com - KAC-9105D - Kenwood Mono 1800 Watt Amplifier

I would recommend this on the subs. Either the new ones @ 1 ohm or the old ones at 4 ohm, it will match either one.

Thanks for this recommendation. It's a good price too. What would the RMS be per 400RMS/800Peak CompVr's? About 450 stable?

 

[quackhead 10+ year member]

Thanks for this recommendation. It's a good price too. What would the RMS be per 400RMS/800Peak CompVr's? About 450 stable?

you are welcome. yes, they should see 450 on that amp.

 

[Jaguar 10+ year member]

@quackhead could you recommend a specific wattage and ohm for 6.5 speakers which might compliment the upgrades to this system. I'll probably get the amp you suggested, keep the compvr's (for now). The ones (6.5's) I have are nice, they have adjustable tweeters built on top, but the rms is too low. Was tuning my system today at max, truly found out the true quality of a car audio system is measured on distortion levels at peak volumes. Basically my system isn't as good as I thought it was, but that's good know, at least I'll end up doubling the quality in the next month or two.

 

[quackhead 10+ year member]

[quote name='Jaguar']Can I throw this question out. I was adjusting my amp settings, and I noticed a HPF and LPF on it I believe with an off option. It's set to HPF, but I also have a HPF / LPF on my Sony XPlod CDX-GT700HD which I have each set to 80Hz to protect my speakers from bursting. Should I change these settings? Advice please, thanks.



Hey guys, any recommendations of some popular mass produced (or even non mainstream amps) I should stay away from you can name off the top of your heads? Im not really familiar with any of these Amps. Names like Hifonics (however it's spelled), pyramid, boss, planet audio, crunch. Can you give me a circle of names of which amps I'm safer to stay in if your unable to name ones I should stay out of. Thanks.

Some amps In the circle I am researching that look Ok are JL Audio, Diamond, Kicker, Rockford Fosgate.[/QUOTE]

@Jaguar regarding the HPF/LPF switch, turn it to the OFF position.

I guess I missed this post.

On your Sony, you should be using your sub pre-out RCA's.

on pg 20 of this:
http://www.docs.sony.com/release/CDXGT700HD_EN_ES.pdf

describes how to activate and operate the built in active sub crossover. Make sure it is on and select which Low Pass Frequency (LPF) sounds best to you. 80hz is a good starting point.

 

[Jaguar 10+ year member]

Turn the HPF/LPF on the amp to off, and switch the LPF to 80%? Thanks.

What about the HPF on the Sony, it's a separate option, I currently have that set to 80%.

@quackhead Get back to me on the 6.5's whenever you have time. I just need an Rms and Ohm recommendation, As for the brand I'll shop around myself.

 

[quackhead 10+ year member]

[quote name='Jaguar']@quackhead could you recommend a specific wattage and ohm for 6.5 speakers which might compliment the upgrades to this system. I'll probably get the amp you suggested, keep the compvr's (for now). The ones (6.5's) I have are nice, they have adjustable tweeters built on top, but the rms is too low. Was tuning my system today at max, truly found out the true quality of a car audio system is measured on distortion levels at peak volumes. Basically my system isn't as good as I thought it was, but that's good know, at least I'll end up doubling the quality in the next month or two.[/QUOTE]

When tuning, you should try this: access the control panel for the Kenwood. Turn the gain all the way counter-clockwise (5-MIN). then turn up the volume on your Sony until A) the sound stops getting louder and is distorted, or B) 75% of volume control, whichever comes first, then stop. If you can attain 75% of the volume control, go to the Kenwood and raise the Gain (clockwise) to the 10 O'clock position. This would be the "2" mark on the scale that reads from 5 (min) around to 0.2 (max). According to specs, your Sony puts out a max of 2 volts output through the RCA's. What you are doing is matching the Head unit output to the amplifiers input section for optimum performance with the least distortion and possible clipping.....As long as you restrain from exceeding the Sony's Volume control past the point it was at when you set the amps' gain.

 

[quackhead 10+ year member]

[quote name='Jaguar']Turn the HPF/LPF on the amp to off, and switch the LPF to 80%? Thanks.

What about the HPF on the Sony, it's a separate option, I currently have that set to 80%.

@quackhead Get back to me on the 6.5's whenever you have time. I just need an Rms and Ohm recommendation, As for the brand I'll shop around myself. [/QUOTE]

what are you using to power your 6.5's...ok, 4 ohm and 100w rms would be what i would recommend on that question.

 

[quackhead 10+ year member]

set the Sony HPF to 80 and the LPF to 80 to start tuning there.