Sub recommendations $300-500 price range

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

The new style Sundown suspension, cone, and frame allows for a lot of travel. Depending how much power you plan to use you may well need the capability for that extra excursion if your goal is to play 20hz test tones.

Otherwise, you might want to take the time to model a few of those woofers you listed. In general a woofer that's critically overdamped mechanically and electromagnetically will typically have a really high FS and play really peaky if you try to force it to play really low.

Personally if I were trying to play whale songs I'd be saving up some extra dough for some LMS 5400's. Accept no substitute when you want high excursion and low distortion.

 

[bbeljefe]

You aren't likely to hair trick with two 15s in a transmission line. But if you do, let me know the details because mine isn't tricking and I've had a variety of subs in it with a good bit of power. Low end extension is insane but the lack of internal cabinet pressure doesn't lend itself to violent air (or hair) movement.

So far I've had Sundown Zv3s, Powerbass Extremes & CT Sounds Tropo & Mesos in the box. The Tropos were temporary and weren't on much power but the Mesos were on two 1400.1s each. They didn't trick but they were brutal. They also didn't like that much power with no acoustical suspension.

That said, my line is tuned to 29Hz and line area equals Sd. I have reduced the line area by 40% in the last two feet of the line and that has increased air movement a bit so I'm thinking that an overall line reduction somewhere between 30 & 40% might be the trick for hair tricks. I don't want to rebuild the box though so in a few weeks I plan to do some baffle mods and install a pair of CT Sounds Exo 18s or, possible, Mesos. The Exos are in the states now making their way to Houston so they should be shipping in a week to 10 days. And just as an FYI, they are over your budget but are definitely worth looking at.

Lemme know how yours turns out though, regardless of the subs you choose and I'll do the same. Right now I'm about half way done building a three 18 t-line blow through in an '08 Tundra 4 door, so I'll soon have some idea of how that much cone area will do. And, with the increased cabin area it should be similar to my setup relative to the cone area to cabin area ratio. That build will have 9918s on an M4.

Oh and, here's my truck with two 1400.1s on the Zv3s. It was behind a processor, so it could have been hitting a little bit harder but still, it doesn't trick with the processor bypassed, it just clips and doesn't sound as clean, lol...



Since that video I've done a lot more deadening, replaced the back glass with a solid one and have done the line area reduction but haven't done another shirt trick video. It'll definitely move hair but it won't pick it up. It'll also float a rag in the corner of the window but only on a few songs. On the meter, it did a 148.9 at 28Hz in the kick and a 160 in the port before the reduction.

 

[Immacomputer 10+ year member]

Otherwise, you might want to take the time to model a few of those woofers you listed. In general a woofer that's critically overdamped mechanically and electromagnetically will typically have a really high FS and play really peaky if you try to force it to play really low.
Personally if I were trying to play whale songs I'd be saving up some extra dough for some LMS 5400's. Accept no substitute when you want high excursion and low distortion.

I know my way around transmission lines and have my own way about designing them. I used to use a modified Martin J. King Mathcad file where I added a section for the vehicle's chamber and modeled my old integra hatch with an Acoustic Elegance AV12 in it perfectly. I matched the meter's response accurately. It also did a 141ish at 22hz and could do a minor hair trick with windows up and sunroof open (cheating I guess). It could also float a piece of foam like you would find in a toolbox in the sunroof area at 22hz. It was -3dB at 17hz and 75hz and was ruler flat (within .1dB) across the 24-70 section but did have a +3dB rise right at 22hz but was back at 0 at 20 and 24.

Critically and over damped drivers are actually really great for getting down low with authority and playing smooth and flat across the band in a transmission line. A strong motor and suspension is needed to keep the driver under control. My current setup is a self loading transmission line (seen here: http://oi35.tinypic.com/14t96b8.jpg )for two True Bass Solution ultra 8s. They're over damped, high Fs drivers yet they play down to 25hz with authority in my trunk Nissan 240sx and have quite a bit of output for only getting about 100wrms each (louder, lower, more flat, and way better transients than two Boston 12s sealed in a Focus hatch getting 300wrms each). I'm not trying to sound like I know everything because I don't, but from my experience with various drivers in various transmission line styles, I very much prefer the over damped and critically damped drivers for flat and extended low end response. If I use a higher Q driver, I almost always have to taper with about a 2:1 ratio and add stuffing to help dampen the response. While I agree with what you said for bass reflex and bandpass enclosures, I think it's a little off for transmission lines. The LMS isn't a bad option but that **** is way over priced for what it is though I have enjoyed the couple I was fortunate enough to hear.

You aren't likely to hair trick with two 15s in a transmission line. But if you do, let me know the details because mine isn't tricking and I've had a variety of subs in it with a good bit of power. Low end extension is insane but the lack of internal cabinet pressure doesn't lend itself to violent air (or hair) movement.
So far I've had Sundown Zv3s, Powerbass Extremes & CT Sounds Tropo & Mesos in the box. The Tropos were temporary and weren't on much power but the Mesos were on two 1400.1s each. They didn't trick but they were brutal. They also didn't like that much power with no acoustical suspension.

That said, my line is tuned to 29Hz and line area equals Sd. I have reduced the line area by 40% in the last two feet of the line and that has increased air movement a bit so I'm thinking that an overall line reduction somewhere between 30 & 40% might be the trick for hair tricks. I don't want to rebuild the box though so in a few weeks I plan to do some baffle mods and install a pair of CT Sounds Exo 18s or, possible, Mesos. The Exos are in the states now making their way to Houston so they should be shipping in a week to 10 days. And just as an FYI, they are over your budget but are definitely worth looking at.

Lemme know how yours turns out though, regardless of the subs you choose and I'll do the same. Right now I'm about half way done building a three 18 t-line blow through in an '08 Tundra 4 door, so I'll soon have some idea of how that much cone area will do. And, with the increased cabin area it should be similar to my setup relative to the cone area to cabin area ratio. That build will have 9918s on an M4.

Oh and, here's my truck with two 1400.1s on the Zv3s. It was behind a processor, so it could have been hitting a little bit harder but still, it doesn't trick with the processor bypassed, it just clips and doesn't sound as clean, lol...

Since that video I've done a lot more deadening, replaced the back glass with a solid one and have done the line area reduction but haven't done another shirt trick video. It'll definitely move hair but it won't pick it up. It'll also float a rag in the corner of the window but only on a few songs. On the meter, it did a 148.9 at 28Hz in the kick and a 160 in the port before the reduction.

Nice vid! If your line is designed around your sub's Fs and SD only, then it's going to be very compromised and not really have the best results. Sure it will work but it won't be as effective as it could. Take a look at the Alignment Tables PDF from this site. It gives a much better way to calculate line area that incorporated motor strength and other factors that are critical for getting the right numbers. Also, the Fs is not a good number to use but rather the Fc of the sub in a sealed box with equivalent air space that is in the line itself. That will get you much better results both in output, low end extension, and sound quality. My little 8s are no joke with just 100w each and when I briefly had them on 600w each, you couldn't smack the smile off of my face haha! I'll keep you updated and do the same with me. But definitely give MJK's page a read and see if it sheds some light on your situation. That man knows his ****!!

Edit: oops forgot the link... http://www.quarter-wave.com

Click on theory then the Alignment tables.

 

[bumpasauras 10+ year member]

I got a pair of hdc3 18's running on 3600 rms and good god almighty they do work! very tough sub they have not been babied in the least. they evn survived the rca short that took me prolly 5 sec to get back to my car and shut off the hu...they got smelly but still bangin almost a year old no probs.

The hdc 4 I have less time with but I ran a single hdc4 15 on an ab 200.1 and was very happy ...till I wanted more lol.

 

[bumpasauras 10+ year member]

Btw my 2 hdc3 18's on 2 ppi bk 1800.1's in 15 cu ft ported tuned to 32 hts with a huge square port will hair trick pretty damm good one too .

 

[bbeljefe]

I know my way around transmission lines and have my own way about designing them. I used to use a modified Martin J. King Mathcad file where I added a section for the vehicle's chamber and modeled my old integra hatch with an Acoustic Elegance AV12 in it perfectly. I matched the meter's response accurately. It also did a 141ish at 22hz and could do a minor hair trick with windows up and sunroof open (cheating I guess). It could also float a piece of foam like you would find in a toolbox in the sunroof area at 22hz. It was -3dB at 17hz and 75hz and was ruler flat (within .1dB) across the 24-70 section but did have a +3dB rise right at 22hz but was back at 0 at 20 and 24.
Critically and over damped drivers are actually really great for getting down low with authority and playing smooth and flat across the band in a transmission line. A strong motor and suspension is needed to keep the driver under control. My current setup is a self loading transmission line (seen here: http://oi35.tinypic.com/14t96b8.jpg )for two True Bass Solution ultra 8s. They're over damped, high Fs drivers yet they play down to 25hz with authority in my trunk Nissan 240sx and have quite a bit of output for only getting about 100wrms each (louder, lower, more flat, and way better transients than two Boston 12s sealed in a Focus hatch getting 300wrms each). I'm not trying to sound like I know everything because I don't, but from my experience with various drivers in various transmission line styles, I very much prefer the over damped and critically damped drivers for flat and extended low end response. If I use a higher Q driver, I almost always have to taper with about a 2:1 ratio and add stuffing to help dampen the response. While I agree with what you said for bass reflex and bandpass enclosures, I think it's a little off for transmission lines. The LMS isn't a bad option but that **** is way over priced for what it is though I have enjoyed the couple I was fortunate enough to hear.

Nice vid! If your line is designed around your sub's Fs and SD only, then it's going to be very compromised and not really have the best results. Sure it will work but it won't be as effective as it could. Take a look at the Alignment Tables PDF from this site. It gives a much better way to calculate line area that incorporated motor strength and other factors that are critical for getting the right numbers. Also, the Fs is not a good number to use but rather the Fc of the sub in a sealed box with equivalent air space that is in the line itself. That will get you much better results both in output, low end extension, and sound quality. My little 8s are no joke with just 100w each and when I briefly had them on 600w each, you couldn't smack the smile off of my face haha! I'll keep you updated and do the same with me. But definitely give MJK's page a read and see if it sheds some light on your situation. That man knows his ****!!

Edit: oops forgot the link... Quarter Wavelength Loudspeaker Design

Click on theory then the Alignment tables.

Thanks man. That line is not designed around Fs and it's actually 8% smaller than Sd... not sure why I said it was equal but hey, I'm old, lol. I've definitely found that tuning below Fs works better in the ones I've built and I've even done one above Fs to see how it performed. Not good, to say the least.

And thanks for the link. I've read it once but I need to go through it again and try to grasp some of the more complex concepts he puts forth.