Speaker and power wire on same side?

[sacsking916 5,000+ posts]

yeen see my IM? you got my shit out yet? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/sneaky.gif.7189749b3a3f769e8815b47e8ae87f88.gif

I'm not at work. And I had my daughters appointment today remember. But it's getting shipped today

 

[jco1385 5,000+ posts]

very well. carry on folks.

 

[VWBobby 10+ year member]

You didn't see the WalMart episode of South Park? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif If we don't stop buying cheap Walmart crap, all of the Car Audio shops will close!

In THIS case, YES Running WALMART wire next to your power wire will burn down your car. Hide your kids, hide your wife, and hide your husband because they're raping everyone out here.

 

[reallyxxxxloud 10+ year member]

You really shouldn't speak unless you know what your talking about. ACUTUALL I DO KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT The charge density in the chassis is much less because of it's greater cross sectional area so the possibility of a concentrated EMI source is negligible. The main sources of noise on the 12V line are usually the alternator or engine electrical system (i.e. the spark plugs). It's possible for either of them to induce noise into your main power line which can then radiate to your RCA cables THATS AN ISSUE WITH GROUND LOOP NOT EMI AND IS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT THING. Will this happen in every setup all the time? No. Is it possible? Definitely. Just because you have a handful of setups that haven't experienced EMI noise doesn't mean it doesn't exist. ACTUALLY I'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR 15 YEARS AND HAVE HELPED BUILD TWO OF AUSTRALIA'S LOUDEST CARS AND MANY MANY MANY BIG STEREO SYSTEMS We tell people not to run them on the same side to prevent possible problems, not because we like making their installs more difficult.

Maybe this guy should shut up too...

"Scott Buwalda" said:MYTH #5: Keep power cables away from signal cables when you're running wires.

"I still separate the two, but only to establish a cosmetic flow to the wiring scheme. But the reality is that, in a negative ground system — as in 99.9% of the cars on the road — the ground plane is the vehicle's chassis, and it carries with it a voltage potential. Simply routing signal wires along this ground plane can induce the same amount of noise as running signal cables right next to power cables. The electron potential of the car's chassis acts as one big antenna for noise, irrespective of where cables are in relation to each other. So routing signal wires and power wires on the opposite side of a vehicle is a completely moot point."

Point is 90% of noise is faulty equipment and ground loop not EMI.

 

[bubbagumper6 5,000+ posts]

Maybe this guy should shut up too...


Point is 90% of noise is faulty equipment and ground loop not EMI.

Your starting to get annoying bud. EMI is Electromagnetic Interference, which for you, just means that if your power wire is carrying any type of AC noise it can be radiated outward. If your RCA cables are too close, it's possible for that noise to induce a voltage in them. An AC voltage induces a changing electromagnetic field which will induce a voltage in any wire in it (unless it's properly shielded). I don't care who Scott Buwalda is or what he said, this is Electronics 101, it's not disputable, it's based on the laws of physics. If you'd like, I could get out my emag book and start copying word for word to explain exactly how EMI works?

 

[VWBobby 10+ year member]

Bubbagumper is right about EMI. I was working on a large silicon ingot growing machine that had an issue with the mouse jumping around the screen. Some idiot engineer used zip ties to bundle the wires for the keyboard/mouse in with the rest of the wires that controlled the machine. Engineer argues with me, so I cut all his ties out and re-route the wires. Problem solved. "Those wires are shielded, this shouldn't happen!"

It takes a technician to fix an engineer's mistakes. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[bubbagumper6 5,000+ posts]

Bubbagumper is right about EMI. I was working on a large silicon ingot growing machine that had an issue with the mouse jumping around the screen. Some idiot engineer used zip ties to bundle the wires for the keyboard/mouse in with the rest of the wires that controlled the machine. Engineer argues with me, so I cut all his ties out and re-route the wires. Problem solved. "Those wires are shielded, this shouldn't happen!" It takes a technician to fix an engineer's mistakes. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

That is strange but not that hard to believe. A lot of mouse wires are incredibly thin and the shielding is terrible. It probably should have been an industrial mouse with better shielding if it was used in that kind of setting. The engineer should have known better from the start.

 

[reallyxxxxloud 10+ year member]

Your starting to get annoying bud. EMI is Electromagnetic Interference, which for you, just means that if your power wire is carrying any type of AC noise it can be radiated outward. If your RCA cables are too close, it's possible for that noise to induce a voltage in them. An AC voltage induces a changing electromagnetic field which will induce a voltage in any wire in it (unless it's properly shielded). I don't care who Scott Buwalda is or what he said, this is Electronics 101 (maybe you should as hes had and has the higest SQ score ever, oh ***** even with his RCAs running with his power), it's not disputable, it's based on the laws of physics. If you'd like, I could get out my emag book and start copying word for word to explain exactly how EMI works?

My point was to use twisted pairs (as stated) with no ground loop issues and I've never ever had nor will with running cables together. I don't care what you say or think I know it works. And Yes I know EMI is real but its not relevant when what I've stated above is done.

 

[bubbagumper6 5,000+ posts]

My point was to use twisted pairs (as stated) with no ground loop issues and I've never ever had nor will with running cables together. I don't care what you say or think I know it works. And Yes I know EMI is real but its not relevant when what I've stated above is done.

Yeah no shit, if you have shielded twisted pair RCA's I would agree it's a lot harder for noise to get in, but that doesn't mean that everyone in the entire world uses those. I said from the beginning, we tell people to separate them to avoid possible problems. Your just trying to split hairs at this point because you realize your argument has no grounds.

And I still don't give a shit who Scott Buwalda is. Just because he knows how to build a decent car audio system does NOT mean he's educated in advanced electromagnetics.

 

[reallyxxxxloud 10+ year member]

Yeah no shit, if you have shielded twisted pair RCA's I would agree it's a lot harder for noise to get in, but that doesn't mean that everyone in the entire world uses those. I said from the beginning, we tell people to separate them to avoid possible problems. Your just trying to split hairs at this point because you realize your argument has no grounds.
And I still don't give a shit who Scott Buwalda is. Just because he knows how to build a decent car audio system does NOT mean he's educated in advanced electromagnetics.

Hold on

Go back to my very first statement I said "with above average twisted pairs RCA's" and my whole point is its not needed to seperate the wires... Your just nit picking cause you like to think you know it all.

 

[bubbagumper6 5,000+ posts]

Hold on
Go back to my very first statement I said "with above average twisted pairs RCA's" and my whole point is its not needed to seperate the wires... Your just nit picking cause you like to think you know it all.

No, your very first statement simply claimed since you had never experienced noise in any of your installs, it must not exist.

 

[reallyxxxxloud 10+ year member]

And I still don't give a shit who Scott Buwalda is. Just because he knows how to build a decent car audio system does NOT mean he's educated in advanced electromagnetics.

Well I think he know a bit more than you seriously... Hybrid Audio Technologies Home

No, your very first statement simply claimed since you had never experienced noise in any of your installs, it must not exist.

No I stated with twisted pairs theres no problem...

 

[bubbagumper6 5,000+ posts]

Well if your making the claim that it's less likely to have induced noise with twisted pair shielded RCA's I would agree, but that's not my point. My point is that we give advice to every joe schmo that wanders in here and a lot of them are building cheap budget setups and don't want to spend money on decent RCA's. So instead of trying to explain the possibility of noise to them, we're just proactive and tell them to separate the cables.

 

[reallyxxxxloud 10+ year member]

lol I find it so funny reading things like this... I run all my cables together always have for the last 15 years of installs. Never had noise with average and above twisted pairs RCAs. Think about it - your chassis is power cable to, no different than your positive...

Funny I seam to be saying theres noise in both the positive and negitive but with Twisted pairs I've never ever had an issue with EMI. What the hell is wrong with letting people who dont know know... Your a typical text book forum geek who obviously has no real world knowledge or you would know what I'm talking about... I'm not saying your not knowledgable in Audio but your not open to learning and thats where you fail.

 

[bubbagumper6 5,000+ posts]

Funny I seam to be saying theres noise in both the positive and negitive but with Twisted pairs I've never ever had an issue with EMI. What the hell is wrong with letting people who dont know know... Your a typical text book forum geek who obviously has no real world knowledge or you would know what I'm talking about... I'm not saying your not knowledgable in Audio but your not open to learning and thats where you fail.

lol, I'm glad you think you've got me figured out. Let's compare post counts for a second. I'm not implying that post count brings prestige or anything of the sort, I'm implying that I've been around a lot longer and know what it's like to try and educate the sort that comes into this forum. They don't care. They come in simply wanting a quick solution to their problem, trying to educate them on electromagnetics is quite a stretch. Stick around awhile and maybe you'll figure that out.

I'd also like to know what this real world knowledge is that you think I'm lacking, and as far as not open to learning goes, well I'll start learning when you start actually teaching something, lmao