Slamming a cold subwoofer..

[Flex68 10+ year member]

Look another thread where Mr. flex68 spouts drivel and then tries to back it up with more bullshit. Not only have you failed to comprehend my simple statement, but you have in fact taken off full speed in the wrong direction. I can attest to the fact my sub woofers that had a 1/8'' wide gap, driven in -10 degree weather, were 100% normal functioning. Not to forget I was running a DD z1 at .33 ohms to the sub woofer. No tears, no rubbing, and no my car did not implode. If anything the cold more dense air would make your system pressurize much easier, and run cooler while doing it. I love it when people like you, who think t/s are everything, get in a thread and try to talk about **** you have no clue on.

I don't think that arguing with you ever gains anyone a thing, so I won't expect it.

However, to proselytize that T/S parameters are unimportant---- as you seem to be attempting to indicate---- is about as brilliant as saying a motor's dyno ratings don't mean shizz when trying to determine WHP.

If you don't base what you want/expect out of a sub on the T/S parameters, as individually tested, then wtf do you base it on, lol.

You're the one spouting stupid BS, and failing to comprehend.

idgaf whether one is after SPL or SQ, putting max RMS to a sub in extreme cold without giving it any chance to warm up strikes me as similar to those who choose to run a system in a non-competition daily driver with no fusing: it is taking an unnecessary risk for no real reason or reward.

I no how the VVX responded, and that was/is enough for me to choose to believe that there are negative consequences if one repetitively hits a cold sub with full volume, allowing no warm-up time with a more moderate signal.

If you choose to believe otherwise, good on you, and no skin off my nose.

(But there's no way you can know whether the subs in your quoted example were "normal functioning" unless you were capturing the numbers on them at that point, lol)

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Couple comments:I never used the term "brittle" in responding to the OP's question about slamming a sub in cold temps. I think that was your term.

Cold temps to me means something beyond the norm. If one assumes that a typical operating range for a speaker is 0-140 degrees F, and that a 'typical' test range is more likely somewhere between 50-100, then surely giving a sub max volume immediately upon starting your ride in -15 degree temps is not what most would agree is a good idea. If it is something that one practices with some frequency, that would be even worse. In fact, I would put that into the realm of "abused," where you note that well built woofers will break, but that is just my opinion.

The function of a sub (electrical--->mechanical) is not quite the same as your comparisons to seats, seatbelts, foam rubber, window gaskets, etc.

A bit better comparison might be your car's engine. If you have to head in to work on a bitterly cold morning, do you generally go out and start your car, throw it into gear, and immediately upon the tires hitting the asphalt, slam the accelerator to the floor and see how quickly you can get it from zero to 100MPH ?

Pure foolishness, and imo it is just as foolish to throw max volume on a sub in similar circumstances....simply begging for trouble, regardless of how well built and reliable either the engine or the sub may be.

Regarding numbers, I know that testing the VVX at room temp versus retesting on that cool day resulted in some skewing of its numbers. I likely still have access to that data, somewhere, and will try to locate it. (Recollection of this info is my "evidence" , to use your terminology)

It really doesn't take much imagination, tho, does it, to view a manufacturer designing and then testing a sub at the "best" temperature to garner "best" results for publishing T/S parameters on that sub? If one picks the middle of the ranges, above, that would be around 70-75 degrees.

Is it really feasible that everything will remain the same at 20 degrees? Much less below zero...?

Test any sub as one normally would, with proper box, proper test tone, everything at room temp, and capture its numbers.

Toss it in the fridge overnight, and conduct the same test, same box, same test tone(s) without allowing any time for the sub to warm up...the numbers will surely change a bit. (Very similarly to the actual VVX tests)

Now, toss it in the freezer overnight, and repeat.

For those that argue the T/S parameters are not going to change, I say BS: they have no choice but to change.

Imma be looking most critically at Qts, Rms, Cms, and Bl. I simply have no doubt that they are going to be notably different. And if you extrapolate that even further (to slamming the sub with max volume on those bitterly cold mornings), then surely one can recognize that you're asking for more outta that motor than it was likely designed to give.

In the end, I still say it is good "preventive maintenance" to allow a sub a bit of time to warm up before doing any slamming, but to each their own!

I surely won't be abusing any of my equipment in that manner, lmao.

You will be hard pressed to hear a 5 or 10% varience in TSP's in a sub, and even if that much of a difference could be measured that proves little in the way of any risk of damage. Many speakers have variences of that much right off the assembly line. All of this is speculation and assumption.

The analogy of an engine is foolish since an engine is dependent on free flowing oil to prevent mechanical wear, extreme cold certainly dramatically changes properties of oil. If a loudspeaker required oil I'd be a little more worried about the whole thing.

What you are saying here is that the suspension may be slightly more stiff on a cold day? What sort of failure does this risk? At what temperature and power level do we need to worry? AND at said power level, how long must we wait to play our music at full volume without worrying about some sort of failure?

I no how the VVX responded, and that was/is enough for me to choose to believe that there are negative consequences if one repetitively hits a cold sub with full volume, allowing no warm-up time with a more moderate signal.

What precisely will fail? At what temperature and power level?

Funny how all the 0 degrees and under guys are chiming in with decades of experience and nobody is coming along saying how their subs broke mechanically on a cold morning.

 

[goingdef 10+ year member]

when it snows here (rare) I like to see how much snow I can remove via bass, and any failures I had where glue related and happened in the dead of summer not saying that's why they even happened(most likely playing over powered and way under tuning)

 

[Ge_off_me 5,000+ posts]

I know that if you have a thin aluminum cone on a sub, you can damage it very easily if you play it too cold.

 

[goingdef 10+ year member]

I know that if you have a thin aluminum cone on a sub, you can damage it very easily if you play it too cold.

those cones are generally 6061 T6 aluminum(or any metal ferrous or non) and the cold won't affect there tinsel/shear strength until you get into the area where you would die from exposure before you had a chance to play it also your engine would not turn over and your battery would not function(for several reasons) so no not a concern ever.

 

[Ge_off_me 5,000+ posts]

Have you ever used a diyma r12? Sorry to inform you but they are famous for having cone failures from being too cold

 

[Why So Cereal? 5,000+ posts]

Have you ever used a diyma r12? Sorry to inform you but they are famous for having cone failures from being too cold

And everything else lol

 

[Joseph7195 10+ year member]

I am not sure how relevant this is, but when I was younger and got gum in my hair, we would freeze it to make it brittle, and it would crack and be easy to remove. I assume since it's natural rubber (chicle-a natural latex) used in gum, I would olny assume it's an affect that could be related to natural rubber surrounds like those used in older subs.

I know if you take a cross section of a surround , you very rarely see one that is perfectly symmetrical. Most have the thinnest wall towards the top. Which is also the part subjected to colder temperatures the longest, which could make it more brittle. But I think the point at which the synthetic rubber gets brittle is -140 degrees F, which is why they believe the space shuttle Challenger exploded (O-ring got to cold and got brittle and it failed).

Seemed like a good read to be subscribed to, everybody keep up the ideas

 

[05fronty 5,000+ posts]

move south/

 

[slim2fattycake 10+ year member]

Have you ever used a diyma r12? Sorry to inform you but they are famous for having cone failures from being too cold

Then they were shitty and defective.

 

[09civic 5,000+ posts]

Unless you have the subs open to the weather where it's below 20, then you should be fine.

 

[Full Tilt 10+ year member]

Thanks for all the input, guys. Getting a lot of mixed opinions on this, I'll probably just end upl playing it safe when it gets around 0 degrees and below. Feel free to give more iput, though! Thanks! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif