Pioneer TS-M801PRO Series 8"

[Craig Hounsell]

Good day,

I am thinking about buying the Pioneer TS-M801PRO PRO Series 8". I have been searching and unable to find the ideal enclosure size for them. Has anyone had experience with these or knows the box volume required? Thanks.

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[Doxquzme Premium Member]

Good day,

I am thinking about buying the Pioneer TS-M801PRO PRO Series 8". I have been searching and unable to find the ideal enclosure size for them. Has anyone had experience with these or knows the box volume required? Thanks.

The Pioneer TS-M801PRO PRO Series 8" is a midrange speaker, not a midbass, not a woofer, and not a sub.

This graph illustrates why this is not really a midbass as Pioneer claims.

See that yellow section? That is around a 7-8 db dip starting at 650-700 Hz, bottoming at roughly 850 hz and recuperating at around 1k.

The green highlights a ripple of almost 5 db in a pretty critical area. 3-4.5k

Blue is where the real usable frequency starts, in this unit, around 150 Hz, and that is a 6 db downpoint, roughly speaking.

Pioneer claims 40 Hz, but that's almost 15 db down from the mean, which is useless.

That's not a bad output curve; it's decent enough, but it's fairly typical of pro-style midrange drivers.

Where are you going to install it?
What's the goal?
What does the rest of the speaker configuration look like?

How do you plan on powering the setup?

If you're stuck on the idea of pro-style high-output drivers, consider the Stevens MB6 or MB8's $89 and $98, respectively, and 10 times the speaker as the Pioneer drivers.

They will actually stay flat from around 85-90 hz to around 5k and can handle 300/350 watts RMS, respectively.

MB8 Midbass Driver (ea)

MB-8 Spec Sheet.PDF The MB8 is a hi-fidelity high sensitivity midbass driver. Perfect for use in 2 way and 3-way systems, or with our HLCD for an incredible horn loaded audio system. The MB8 is unique, the high-power handling (450 watts) high fidelity, and high sensitivity, produce audio...

stevens.audio

 

[Craig Hounsell]

Thanks for the feedback. I'm hoping to acheive a liitle more mid-bass to add some punch but I find it very difficult on-line to find any useful information that would help distinguish a real mid-bass from the false claims. Currently I have 3 Pioneer amps, 1 running 6.5 full range up front, 1 running 2 12" subs and 1 running 2 6x9's and 2 6.5's in the rear.

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

Are all your drivers pro-style? M

Midbass is really from around 70 to around 150++. It's also the most difficult thing to get right in a vehicle.

It may very well be that you have overloaded the mmodrange setup and have never really addressed the midbass section at all.

Truth is, most pro-style drivers that say they are midbass aren't really lying; they are catering to a group of listeners that either don't know better or don't care.

It would be nice to know the following information:

What is the year, make, and model of the car?
What is the source, OEM, aftermarket head unit make and model?
Are there any DSP processors or active or passive crossovers, and if yes, which makes and models?
What is the make/model of all your speakers?
Where are they located/installed in the vehicle?
What are the make/model of the amps powering them?

If you would list all that stuff (and nobody is judging if it's junk or jewelry), it would be imperative to know what we're looking at in order to advise without it just being a best guess.

My "guess" is you have too many drivers that are doing the same thing, but that is just a guess.

 

[Craig Hounsell]

I really appreciate you taking the time to help me out. Ok, here is a list, all Pioneer except for the LOC's:

Rear: Audio Control LC2i
Rear: 2 subs TS-A301D4 12" - 1600 Powered by GM-DX871

Rear: 2 6x9's TS-A6991FH
2 6.5's TS-M651PRO
Powered by GM-DX874

Front: AudioControl LC1i
Front: 2 6.5's TS-Z65F
Powered by GM-DX874 (2 channels not used yet)

The car is 2024 Kona Electric EV.
Factory head unit.

Because it is an EV, I can't upgrade the alternator or put in a bigger battery so I think I am at my max output.

I don't have processors. I just use the cross-overs that are built into the amps.

Thanks,
Craig

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

I really appreciate you taking the time to help me out. Ok, here is a list, all Pioneer except for the LOC's:

Rear: Audio Control LC2i
Rear: 2 subs TS-A301D4 12" - 1600 Powered by GM-DX871

Rear: 2 6x9's TS-A6991FH
2 6.5's TS-M651PRO
Powered by GM-DX874

Front: AudioControl LC1i
Front: 2 6.5's TS-Z65F
Powered by GM-DX874 (2 channels not used yet)

The car is 2024 Kona Electric EV.
Factory head unit.

Because it is an EV, I can't upgrade the alternator or put in a bigger battery so I think I am at my max output.

I don't have processors. I just use the cross-overs that are built into the amps.

Thanks,
Craig

Okay, did it come with the BOSE or non-BOSE factory setup?

 

[Craig Hounsell]

Non-Bose

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

Okay, I assume the front doors house the Z series coax, and the TS-M651PRO are in the rear doors?

Where did you mount the 6x9"s?

What size is the sub enclosure, is it ported or sealed, and if it's a prefab, what is the make and model?

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

And are you opposed to putting a set of tweeters in the pillars where the factory tweeters are?

 

[Craig Hounsell]

That is correct.

I cut holes in the rear deck for the 6x9's and sealed the deck to its surroundings.

The subs are in wedge style ported enclosure. I forget the volume but I followed the manufacturers recommendations.

 

[Craig Hounsell]

And are you opposed to putting a set of tweeters in the pillars where the factory tweeters are?

No, not really.

 

[Craig Hounsell]

No, not really.

I find the sibilance is at the max threshold already. Not sure about adding more highs.

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

I'm familiar with all of the equipment used but was not thinking about adding, but supplanting; I'll get to that in a bit.

I'm guessing that the system is extremely bright and very midrange heavy and lacking midbass (as noted), but not because there isn't any.

There is too much duplication of the midrange to high-frequency output, and the midbass cannot keep up.

The "Z" series coaxials are decent speakers; the tweeters are quite bright when left to their own devices, but they are good speakers.

6 x 9s are decent, but again, their full range, along with the other Pios, should be fairly decent.

But then you throw in a pair of those 6.5" pro-style mids in the rear doors, and you now have 4 mid-ish midbass drivers and 6 midrange drivers (4 of the same general output and 2 with exponentially higher output on the same wattage), 6 tweeters, and 4 super tweeters.


The system is entirely out of balance.

Now the fun part... budget.

There is no cheap fix here—not an arm and a leg, but maybe more than you were considering.


Here is what I would do to improve the sound exponentially.

Using one of the two GM-DX874s for the rear setup, put the Pioneer coaxials in the rear doors and replace the 6x9s with a 2-ohm 6x9 from CDT (or even a 4 ohm 6x9 that is strictly a woofer, not a full-range setup, or anything that you can afford).

CDT AUDIO ES-0690.2 6"x9" 125W RMS 2 OHM EXTENDED MID BASS CARBON FIBER SPEAKERS | eBay

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There is a seller on DIYmobilaudio that has a used pair for $150 us, might be easy enough to ship to CA if you cover the cost difference. I'll try and DM you the URL.

Even these as fairly efficient 4-ohm units running off about 100 watts from the pio amp, great option too.

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Using a 2-ohm 6x9 woofer in the rear would give you 150 watts x 2 to the 6x9's and 100 x 2 to the 6.5's, a nice balanced ratio in favor of midbass.

In either the CDT or that Rockville, you would set the 2 channels for those drivers as an LP filter around that 500 Hz mark on the amp to ensure they are only playing midbass and lower midrange, much better. Use the HP at around 60-70 hz for the coaxial in the rear doors.

I'd also replace using the LC1i/LC2i combo, a bit of a convoluted way to get this done, assuming you're using the output on the rear 4-channel to feed the subs on the GM-DX871.

If you're not opposed to learning a bit, then getting an entry-level DSP from Taramps would be a great option. Using the single LC2i to feed the RCA inputs on, say, a Taramps Pro 2.6s to configure all the non-subwoofer drivers and splitting the output off the LC2i, running one set to the DSP and the other to the subwoofer amp, then you could control all 6 channels, front and rear, for volume, time alignment, and frequencies.

QUBED makes a decent 5-channel non-DSP/LOC that is decent enough as well.

Up front, to match the rear coaxials in tone, timbre, and output, get the matching set of pioneer "Z" series components; even better, get the "ZCH" version, as the passive crossovers are much better than the standard "Z" components.

These are good:

Pioneer TS-Z65C Z-Series 6-1/2" 2-Way Car Audio Component Speakers 6.5" Comp NEW 884938374590 | eBay

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These are much better. Bigger woofer motor/magnet assembly, better power handling, and a far better crossover that lets you run the tweeters at flat, +2 or +4 db.

Pioneer TS-Z65CH 330W 2-Way Aramid Fiber IMPP Cone Speakers - Black 884938374613 | eBay

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Mount the 6.5's in the doors and run the tweeters in the factory locations in the pillars.

This will completely reshape the front stage, bring it up closer to ear level, improve dynamics. , improve the imaging, both R/L and spatial.

I would bridge the remaining Pioneer and feed the Pioneer components up front with that remaining amp at 300 watts x 2, bridged, turning the gains down so that it's closer to around 175-200 watts x 2.

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

Keep in mind that is a total overhaul. You could also do it a bit at a time. Either way, I'd take the mids in the rear out of the picture right away, TOO much midrange!

 

[Craig Hounsell]

Wow, this is great information and advice. Thank you so much! I will definitely start rethinking the set-up based on this conversation. It will take some time (I already spent a lot of dough lol). But, I'll get there. Thanks again for your help.