New Car....need help on 1st SQ build

[Topless Stang 10+ year member]

Hello everyone. I've been a long term lurker on these forums and has gotten some great info, but now I figure I'd post far enough in advance of my next build to take suggestions into consideration.

I've been around the block several times as far as installs and equipment go, but this is my first attempt at an SQ build. I picked up a Chevy Vault last week and I'm currently researching what to use for my next build. I cant do anything as far as the H/U goes so I planned to use a system integration DSP & to that end I already picked up a JBL MS-8. I had originally planned to just go all Alpine and pick up the Type-R components for the front, the coaxials for the rear and a shallow mount Type-R 12 since I want to maximize space. I planned on picking up an Alpine PDX-V9 to power it all. After reading a few things I'm thinking of going Active for the first time.

I was thinking of using the MS8's internal amp to power the tweets and the Alpine to power the mids, coaxials and sub. Without spending a lot more is this a decent setup? If I shouldn't use the MS 8 to power the tweets what would you folks recommend as a good, cheap tweet amp? Being an electric car I'd like to keep energy consumption low...so I was thinking a class D tweeter amp? I want to get the most bang for my buck using new speakers, not interested in picking up used speakers for a good price. There also does not to be much info out there on what fits my ride, but I was able to find a few threads that had installs done and one of them used the Alpine speakers. In my Mustang I have Hertz Energy comps & coaxials installed in a passive setup and was pleased, but wanted something different. What are the thoughts from the experts here?

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[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

Use the MS-8s amp to power the rears. Rears are not important but help with 7.1. They don't need to be loud. That's what I do.

 

[Crusty McThicks]

I agree, rear fill is nice but the fronts are going to be your most noticeable. Im curious to see how your system effects your cars range???

 

[TaylorFade 10+ year member]

Since you don't need crossovers... save yourself some money and get raw drivers. You will wind up with better drivers and more suited to what you need.

Check out Madisound and Parts Express. Look for Dayton, Silver Flute, Vifa, Peerless.

Using the meager amp in the MS-8 to power anything other than maybe a center is useless, IMO. You'll never be able to level match. It would be a waste of money to even buy rears if you're only going to use the MS-8 to power them.

I'd ditch the rears and do a 3-way front if you don't mind finding a spot for the mid. Or... save yourself the amp channels and just run 2-way + sub. One 5 channel amp and you're done.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

Since you don't need crossovers... save yourself some money and get raw drivers. You will wind up with better drivers and more suited to what you need.
Check out Madisound and Parts Express. Look for Dayton, Silver Flute, Vifa, Peerless.

Using the meager amp in the MS-8 to power anything other than maybe a center is useless, IMO. You'll never be able to level match. It would be a waste of money to even buy rears if you're only going to use the MS-8 to power them.

I'd ditch the rears and do a 3-way front if you don't mind finding a spot for the mid. Or... save yourself the amp channels and just run 2-way + sub. One 5 channel amp and you're done.

Using the MS-8 amp to run even stock rears builds a VERY NICE center. It won't do 7.1 with a 3 way. It don't need to be level matched to work.

No offense but you may want to stick to SPL.

 

[TaylorFade 10+ year member]

Using the MS-8 amp to run even stock rears builds a VERY NICE center. It won't do 7.1 with a 3 way. It don't need to be level matched to work.
No offense but you may want to stick to SPL.

Riiiight. Because a 10x difference in power really creates that balance we're looking for. Did you just say we don't need to level match?

Rear fill can add a sense of depth if done correctly. Which most don't. The MS8 has amazing capabilities, but I'm not sure you understand localization if you're using rears to "build a center". Unless you mean the geographic center of the car?

Were we talking about HT or CA? I didn't see where he was asking about 7.1. If that's the sound you prefer- that's great, but no offense... you may want to stick to the home theater forums.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

Riiiight. Because a 10x difference in power really creates that balance we're looking for. Did you just say we don't need to level match?
Rear fill can add a sense of depth if done correctly. Which most don't. The MS8 has amazing capabilities, but I'm not sure you understand localization if you're using rears to "build a center". Unless you mean the geographic center of the car? It does not to be matched. Yes I said it again. I know because I do it.

Were we talking about HT or CA? I didn't see where he was asking about 7.1. If that's the sound you prefer- that's great, but no offense... you may want to stick to the home theater forums.

Lol the rears are just there to provide a larger room ambiance. And they do help create a center with more depth. Basically they push all out of phase info up front. It's pretty cool actually.

MS-8 does logic 7.1 IF you have rear fill.

Figured you knew that the way you where talking.

 

[TaylorFade 10+ year member]

Lol the rears are just there to provide a larger room ambiance. And they do help create a center with more depth. Basically they push all out of phase info up front. It's pretty cool actually.
MS-8 does logic 7.1 IF you have rear fill.

Figured you knew that the way you where talking.

Andy W. said himself that rears do not help with a center. So you can debate that with him if you like.

I know the MS8 does Logic 7.1. I've owned two of them. But 7.1 is for HT where there is relevant information from the rear channels (surround sound). We live in a stereo world unless someone is overly concerned about watching movies in their vehicle. But me... I listen to music and tune accordingly.

You also didn't recommend a center channel for him. Figured you knew that you needed a center for 7.1 the way you were talking.

 

[adulbrich 5,000+ posts]

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[TaylorFade 10+ year member]

Also just noticed this comment in the quoted portion...

It does not to be matched. Yes I said it again. I know because I do it.

What do you mean it doesn't need to be level matched? Do you not understand how our ears work? Or do you mean that the user doesn't need to level match because the MS8 does it for you?

Because it does. Say you are powering the rears with the MS8 and have an amp on the fronts... the MS8 is going to pull a shit ton from the fronts to level match them. And when that happens... congrats, you just neutered your amp to 18w.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

Also just noticed this comment in the quoted portion...


What do you mean it doesn't need to be level matched? Do you not understand how our ears work? Or do you mean that the user doesn't need to level match because the MS8 does it for you?

Because it does. Say you are powering the rears with the MS8 and have an amp on the fronts... the MS8 is going to pull a shit ton from the fronts to level match them. And when that happens... congrats, you just neutered your amp to 18w.

Negative. You have to know the quirks. As in raising gains after calibration.

I spent months trying many different configurations. I think I know a little something about what it does and does not do.

It will build a center without rear fill but it's not the same.

With rear fill and logic 7.1 on, depending on the music you listen to, at times it will build a 3D image of the lead singer. Won't happen without rears and what you say as unneeded 7.1

 

[TaylorFade 10+ year member]

Negative. You have to know the quirks. As in raising gains after calibration. I spent months trying many different configurations. I think I know a little something about what it does and does not do.

It will build a center without rear fill but it's not the same.

With rear fill and logic 7.1 on, depending on the music you listen to, at times it will build a 3D image of the lead singer. Won't happen without rears and what you say as unneeded 7.1

I'm fully aware of the quirks. Which is why I ditched it.

You're altering the calibration and fighting with it. Which is why you've spent months trying different configurations. But I'm glad you've found settings that you enjoy. Try lowering the crossover on the rears to ~ 3khz. It should tighten up your center. If you're running full range, I imagine there is some smearing.

And not for nothin, but...

The trophy on the right is for SQ... in my SPL car.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

I'm fully aware of the quirks. Which is why I ditched it.
You're altering the calibration and fighting with it. Which is why you've spent months trying different configurations. But I'm glad you've found settings that you enjoy. Try lowering the crossover on the rears to ~ 3khz. It should tighten up your center. If you're running full range, I imagine there is some smearing.

And not for nothin, but...

The trophy on the right is for SQ... in my SPL car.

Good. I did also with the old scion. And a bit 1 which this tune destroys in almost every way. I don't compete anymore.

Making a car that can win a trophy is not that hard. You just have to make the judging material sound good at judging volume. That can be done with decent equipment and a DSP.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

Point is you don't need the rears to be level matched. All they are there for is to make the room feel larger and in turn add depth.

We can tuck are peckers back in now.

 

[TaylorFade 10+ year member]

Point is you don't need the rears to be level matched. All they are there for is to make the room feel larger and in turn add depth.
We can tuck are peckers back in now.

You also don't need 7.1 to emulate room reflections. But you absolutely need to level match shit. I just think you and I have different definitions of it. When I say "level match"... I mean that everything is at the proper level to blend. Apparently you think it means everything is at the same level. Which, obviously, would sound like ass.

But the point is... you don't need rears... Period. Lol.