New AA SMD Woofer

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

Sad thing is..the vast majority of people, including myself, can't stand the sound of something that is 100% flat..it sounds dead to me, and I don't like it...

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

SQ competitions FTL!

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

Perceived sound and linearity are two different things. However, it isn't the job of a system to produce something you like. What we're listening to are recordings of live events; thus, the job of the system is to reproduce that event. That is why linearity is important. In a low distortion system, you blame the recording (and rightfully so, over the last couple decades).

That is where we differ. You want to make something that people prefer; I want to make something that plays the recording only.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

Perceived sound and linearity are two different things. However, it isn't the job of a system to produce something you like. What we're listening to are recordings of live events; thus, the job of the system is to reproduce that event. That is why linearity is important. In a low distortion system, you blame the recording (and rightfully so, over the last couple decades).
That is where we differ. You want to make something that people prefer; I want to make something that plays the recording only.

I disagree. Why listen at all if it is not pleasant? If a system can introduce distortions (calling a spade, a spade) that enhance the enjoyment of the system, then why is that not preferred? Consider the CVT setup in automobiles. The CVT can change gears seamlessly, yet engineers have to synthetically create the "blip" or the notion that gears are changing. This is adding a distortion to the system. Without it, they'd sell less cars as consumers are accustomed to that artifact, just as they are accustomed to non-linearity is muscial reproductions.

 

[Mc_Hammer 10+ year member]

snapz

 

[NDMstang65 10+ year member]

So i can flop a piece of material, 100% linear, down to the micron for arguments sake.

It plays the recording accurately just and only just because it is linear and therefore an accurate reproduction of the recording? What happens when the motor peaks at 58Hz? It's still linear...but you've got a 3.9dBa peak at 58Hz? Is that because of the recording? Or is that because of the motor getting happy? (Keep in mind it is still linear)

It's not the linearity of something that matters, it's well can it play flat or not? If it plays flat from 0-20Khz then...it's linear? Or is it..un-linear? Is it the recording? Or is it the speaker?

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

It is akin to viewing a Van Gogh through sunglasses. Doesn't make sense, to me.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

It's not the linearity of something that matters, it's well can it play flat or not? If it plays flat from 0-20Khz then...it's linear? Or is it..un-linear? Is it the recording? Or is it the speaker?

Can a "system" make something otherwise unlinear, linear? The answer is clearly yes, but is that what those who created the recording intended? How can you tell?

-- I think we are asking DD the same questions here.

 

[NDMstang65 10+ year member]

It is akin to viewing a Van Gogh through sunglasses. Doesn't make sense, to me.

Your not viewing it through sunglasses...

Is linearity distortion? Is linearity a jaded/skewed view of a recording?

Could i set a guitar in front of you, pluck the string, record it, play it back through a speaker that has a flat response, play it through a speaker that does not have a flat response (but is linear 100%) and you could tell me which one was the most accurate reproduction of that string pluck?

Keep in mind I would do this with accelerometers, and an array of microphones around your head..

I'm actually doing stuff like that in the lab now that identifies what sound is...such as a train..a helicopter and how we identify what it is..by sound.

 

[NDMstang65 10+ year member]

Can a "system" make something otherwise unlinear, linear? The answer is clearly yes, but is that what those who created the recording intended? How can you tell?
-- I think we are asking DD the same questions here.

Exactly.

We're arguing a point of something..that should only take place in an anechoic chamber...

A car, acoustically sucks....especially a subwoofer. lol //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Gotta go

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

So i can flop a piece of material, 100% linear, down to the micron for arguments sake.
It plays the recording accurately just and only just because it is linear and therefore an accurate reproduction of the recording? What happens when the motor peaks at 58Hz? It's still linear...but you've got a 3.9dBa peak at 58Hz? Is that because of the recording? Or is that because of the motor getting happy? (Keep in mind it is still linear)

It's not the linearity of something that matters, it's well can it play flat or not? If it plays flat from 0-20Khz then...it's linear? Or is it..un-linear? Is it the recording? Or is it the speaker?

An ideal system will be within +/- 1 dB for an equal amplitude input signal across all frequencies within, at the very least, the audible bandwidth. As the amplitude increases (which, again, will be the same amplitude at all frequencies), then the pressure at all frequencies should still be within +/- 1 dB. Keep in mind that we aren't only talking about axial response, but power response is critical as well, particularly when crossing from one driver to another.

This does not mean that all sounds in all recordings will be +/- 1 dB. They will vary as the original performance did.

Note that I am using the term linearity in the traditional audio context, ie. referring to harmonic and inter-modulation distortion. There is a fairly strong function between low HD, IMD and flat response. More minor affects are seen in cone and surround geometry and material, as well as thermal compression.

 

[mlstrass 5,000+ posts]

Perceived sound and linearity are two different things. However, it isn't the job of a system to produce something you like. What we're listening to are recordings of live events; thus, the job of the system is to reproduce that event. That is why linearity is important. In a low distortion system, you blame the recording (and rightfully so, over the last couple decades).
That is where we differ. You want to make something that people prefer; I want to make something that plays the recording only.

I would venture to say you're in the minority then. Neither way is right or wrong, but if I was manufacturing/selling equipment I'd make something people prefer, so I could hopefully maximize profits.

One question I do have: how much "live" music do you actually listen to vs music recorded in a studio? Or do you consider studio mixed music as being live?

 

[Mc_Hammer 10+ year member]

i enjoy reading neil's poasts //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

Live concerts are studio mixed, too.

Either way, they are recording a live event (for example, a plucking of a string). Even though the mastering process involves altering the recording, it is the mastered product that I want to hear, and not anything else.

You are right in noting that I don't care about profits; I care about music.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

Live concerts are studio mixed, too.
Either way, they are recording a live event (for example, a plucking of a string). Even though the mastering process involves altering the recording, it is the mastered product that I want to hear, and not anything else.

You are right in noting that I don't care about profits; I care about music.

Do you think it is possible for it to be studio mixed in such a way that anticipates the distortions to be added later by the end user?

Such as if musician "x" knows it's final customers will turn up the bass boost (yes, it's a crude example). Would it be mixed in such a way that anticipates the bass boost...and is altered to "go along" with this bass boosting...?

Hope that made sense?

In the above case, you aren't really hearing as the artist intended are you?

 

[Skip01 5,000+ posts]

This is gettin interesting. I am enjoyin the readin of these at work