Nearly no excursion on Zv.4 15" More power or bigger box?

[Boomin_tahoe 5,000+ posts]

Sundown woofers are honestly rated. These "ZOMG this can handle 4KW" threads are freaking stupid. I can assure you that a true 2KW amp can definitely burn up the Zv4 coil.
OP, what precisely is the problem, are you lacking output? Pics of the sub in the box in your car?

Have you proven this??

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

who said anything about rated rms, or a honda flexing. neither was mentioned. Myjaja ran his zv4s on two 3500 v2s at .5

there you go again, running your mouth about shit you don't know

I've used the best 3 inch coil I know of. Ran 2500 to it daily. Didn't break a sweat. Guess what.. I don't listen to clamped sine waves. Also if you didn't know, larger the motor higher the rise. Big amps cut a lot of power with rise.

 

[massivespl]

Jacob test the zv4 free air on a saz3500 and it takes that fine free air. My buddy runs ab 750.1 to a pair of zv4s stock. If u got NS coils they can handle even more power. The zv4 are a monster woofer.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

Jacob test the zv4 free air on a saz3500 and it takes that fine free air. My buddy runs ab 750.1 to a pair of zv4s stock. If u got NS coils they can handle even more power. The zv4 are a monster woofer.

Its a 3 inch coil. Even the real Z won't like over 2500 clamped for to long. If it needs that much power there is a huge efficiency problem.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Have you proven this??

I've had this discussion with Jacob and other people in the industry, but what do they know when your buddy knows a guy on youtube that runs a 4000W amp to one all day err' day. Don't believe me, clamp 50hz sine wave of 2000W into one of those subs and LMK how many minutes you get before the coil melts.

I've used the best 3 inch coil I know of. Ran 2500 to it daily. Didn't break a sweat. Guess what.. I don't listen to clamped sine waves. Also if you didn't know, larger the motor higher the rise. Big amps cut a lot of power with rise.

I've run 3" coil sub on JBL/Crown A6000 that does not mean that those coils can hold 6KW. And if you don't think people listen to clipped sine waves you haven't been out much lately because that's pretty much the extent of what passes for music for a lot of people.

Think/thought he made a thread awhile back about this.....but not entirely sure. CACO would be the place to look.
Of course the 1750 rms power rating is under rated. Rather have that than over rated.

His products are honestly rated.

oh really

I don't see a clamp or o-scope in that video so all it proves is that your car needs deadening.

 

[massivespl]

Its a 3 inch coil. Even the real Z won't like over 2500 clamped for to long. If it needs that much power there is a huge efficiency problem.

Lmao ain't a efficiency problem. 4 zv4 15s on a ab 750.1 does a 155sealed and when he added a 2nd 750.1 he does a 158.1 sealed.

And my other buddy has a pair of zv4 12s in 6cubes on a ct 7k and does 150db from trunk.

I had two nsv3 18s on my 8k at half ohm and my new build will have a 8k to each sub at .5ohm. They took the power fine in my last wall. The coils are long as shlt, prly helps displaceheat? Idk

 

[garychoffmann 10+ year member]

Most sundowns don't fail from power. It's normally from the spl they create realigning molecules and colliding atoms that creates dark matter. Which in turn collapses a star and forms a black hole. The black hole then ***** in surrounding matter and on the other side when it decompresses the matter explodes and groups into solar systems which in 100's of millions of years will be at this exact moment in their evolution where another jacob will create a new subwoofer that collapses stars and suns..... it's called Sun-down for a reason. Jacob knows what he's doing. Destroying suns and creating a black hole nut grip that will cycle on forever.

 

[timma100 10+ year member]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I83v3KrmQtA

Sundown woofers are honestly rated. These "ZOMG this can handle 4KW" threads are freaking stupid. I can assure you that a true 2KW amp can definitely burn up the Zv4 coil.
OP, what precisely is the problem, are you lacking output? Pics of the sub in the box in your car?

I tossed a video up, its not the best but you can see the box/excursion.. I'm happy with the output, I just feel like the box is really holding the woofer back, But I wanted input from more experienced players before I went box hunting //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Have a better box designed. Power should be plenty. I would hope it's enough. Keep in mind that Ti basket is not the same so you can not expect the same.
This is why I despise custom subs. Throwing random parts together, forget what the original designer thought.

I agree completely, the woofer wasn't my first choice, however with a fresh re-cone and $400 shipped.. I couldn't pass it up

 

[Boomin_tahoe 5,000+ posts]

I've had this discussion with Jacob and other people in the industry, but what do they know when your buddy knows a guy on youtube that runs a 4000W amp to one all day err' day. Don't believe me, clamp 50hz sine wave of 2000W into one of those subs and LMK how many minutes you get before the coil melts.


I've run 3" coil sub on JBL/Crown A6000 that does not mean that those coils can hold 6KW. And if you don't think people listen to clipped sine waves you haven't been out much lately because that's pretty much the extent of what passes for music for a lot of people.

His products are honestly rated.

I don't see a clamp or o-scope in that video so all it proves is that your car needs deadening.

So what your saying is your challenging Jake in his experimentations about rms wattage to subs and whatnot? Is that what your saying? You have a disbelief against the guy that has brought the company to another level??

Maybe you need to take a step back and look at yourself for a second before you dig yourself a grave because I can guarantee you there's no winning an arguement agasint him if you decide to go that route. He has posted plenty of vids of diff subs taking a 3500 watt amp easy. Even an SA18 taking 2 3500 watt amps. That sub is rated for 600 rms.

SOME of his products are underrated. He said so himself.

Just because a buddy of yours or whomever has 4k going to a pair of so and so doesn't necessarily mean those subs are getting a full 4k...unless it's for comps/SPL/DBDrags.

Hope he see's this thread and comments about it. Maybe to shut you up.

 

[Boomin_tahoe 5,000+ posts]

Hey timma....nice fan placement lol

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Lmao ain't a efficiency problem. 4 zv4 15s on a ab 750.1 does a 155sealed and when he added a 2nd 750.1 he does a 158.1 sealed.
And my other buddy has a pair of zv4 12s in 6cubes on a ct 7k and does 150db from trunk.

I had two nsv3 18s on my 8k at half ohm and my new build will have a 8k to each sub at .5ohm. They took the power fine in my last wall. The coils are long as shlt, prly helps displaceheat? Idk

Running a woofer with an amp which can make 4000W does not mean that sub is necessarily seeing anywhere near that. The zv4 coil is good, but not magical. 2500W is the power used by the largest element on an electric stove glowing cherry red. You really think a 3" coil will hold that much heat for long? I repeat my challenge, go ahead and clamp 2500W sine wave at 50hz to one of those Z coils and let me know how that goes for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I83v3KrmQtA
I tossed a video up, its not the best but you can see the box/excursion.. I'm happy with the output, I just feel like the box is really holding the woofer back, But I wanted input from more experienced players before I went box hunting //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

I agree completely, the woofer wasn't my first choice, however with a fresh re-cone and $400 shipped.. I couldn't pass it up

Likely you can gain from simply turning the box around firing into the trunk. Give that a shot and see if you don't notice more/better output. A new box may or may not help. IMO the specs on that box you have aren't terrible so it's hard telling whether you would really gain audibly from dumping 250$ into a custom box provided you keep the same tuning.

So what your saying is your challenging Jake in his experimentations about rms wattage to subs and whatnot? Is that what your saying? You have a disbelief against the guy that has brought the company to another level??
Maybe you need to take a step back and look at yourself for a second before you dig yourself a grave because I can guarantee you there's no winning an arguement agasint him if you decide to go that route. He has posted plenty of vids of diff subs taking a 3500 watt amp easy. Even an SA18 taking 2 3500 watt amps. That sub is rated for 600 rms.

SOME of his products are underrated. He said so himself.

Just because a buddy of yours or whomever has 4k going to a pair of so and so doesn't necessarily mean those subs are getting a full 4k...unless it's for comps/SPL/DBDrags.

Hope he see's this thread and comments about it. Maybe to shut you up.

I visited Sundown in Troutman and at the new location, had lunch with the guys there and specifically had a discussion about power handling ratings with Jacob. Unless you're telling me he lied to my face then I'm telling you the woofers he sells are honestly rated. This is the same way Eminence (the largest speaker manufacturer in the USA) rates their drivers; the ratings are clamped 50hz sine wave for 8 hours... or basically indestructible at that power ratings, which IMO is the only way to be really honest. Once you exceed these thermal limits and heat is building up faster than it can be dissipated you get into failure very quickly and exponentially faster as you increase power beyond that.

Do you really think that because a woofer can take 6000W tone for 3 seconds that it would survive that for 3 minutes? If it would survive 6KW for 15 seconds, 2000W for 1 minute, 1500W for 3 minutes, or 900W for 3 hours which is the honest power rating?

Just because your buddy knows a guy on youtube that runs a 3500W rated amp to a Z does not mean that sub is seeing even half that power ever. Nor does it mean that the next guy couldn't hook the same sub up to a 3500W rated amp and wind up with a situation where the sub actually sees over 3000W and fails in his first Young Jeezy song he tries to play.

I think you people really have no idea what power is, how it is measured, what those numbers really mean, or how a loudspeaker works.

 

[garychoffmann 10+ year member]

You need to have a box built for that sub. Since the sub is not a zv4 going by what a zv4 needs is pointless. You need to pull the t/s and see what kind of box it needs.

 

[massivespl]

Running a woofer with an amp which can make 4000W does not mean that sub is necessarily seeing anywhere near that. The zv4 coil is good, but not magical. 2500W is the power used by the largest element on an electric stove glowing cherry red. You really think a 3" coil will hold that much heat for long? I repeat my challenge, go ahead and clamp 2500W sine wave at 50hz to one of those Z coils and let me know how that goes for you.

Bro who drives around and plays a 50hz sine wave? I don't even really like bass above 40hz lmao. We talking about daily. The zv4 will handle a 4k amp.

 

[MrFoca]

Yeah. How is testing at 50hz dictate anything about daily usage ??? This is a question

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

We rate our subs at basically sine-wave power levels -- meaning when you connect an amplifier; often 2x the size of our rating to the driver you are typically providing it with a level of power similar to the RMS rating after losses, rise, etc.

The difference in this discussion is the definition of "handling" -- many folks say the wattage rating of the amplifier as how much power it is handling; we refer to delivered power.

I do prefer to rate our drivers this way to ensure that even the least experienced users will not have failures. It's easier for us, dealers, distributors, and customers.

I think any disagreement in here is simply semantics -- no worries guys, back to the bass!