i can't believe i read this whole thread. however i can say that audioholic has royally owned audiolife on several occasions in this thread, yet he fails to accept it....kinda comical actually. Its like hes the king. and since he's king and the king is never wrong, then he must be right........riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
audioholic
5,000+ posts
not a moderator
Did I say I had an 'EQ with lights that bob up and down', or did I say I had an RTA? Its funny how you try to talk to me like Im a 3 year old, when its you that doesn't have the clue. Its an RTA (you know.... uh... with one of those mic .....uh..... things). I swear, you think you are the only one around here that knows anything. You dont even think I know what an RTA IS, when Ive stated for the past two pages that I OWN one. You'll try anything here wont you? Its a Coustic RTA-33 smart guy.
The scale and weight questions are irrlevant as they would not change the frequency reading. Still trying to baffle us with BS I see.
You are sad. Everyone knows about the GN, and everyone still fights about how the thing was even set up. Yep, it did have the midbass in the back (2 of them in stereo) and it sounded good. BUT, that is the exception to the rule, NOT the norm. If you know about the GN, you know this too, and are simply trying to find another loophole to jump through. To this day people, experts, still argue over how and/or why that vehicle sounded as good as it did with such odd speaker placement. Now, if you want to take that and run with it, sugeesting to every newb you see that rear mounted center mono midbass is fine (great even!) by all means, do so. But I will be here to point out the flaws in your logic.
Like I said, if what you are saying is true, we could all run center monted mono midbass speakers in the rear.... so why aren't you?
the mid bass is up front in this situation so why do you keep saying i wanna mount it in the rear? although in many vehicles it is in the rear due to the sub. you can cross your sub over at 70 hz on a 18-24 hz slope and it will still have plenty of mid bass output from the back maybe not up to 250 but 70-120 there will be roll off. rc's car isnt the only rear midbass car either its not really a mystery imaging is time then the higher the frequency becomes directional where absolute direction happens at 2khz-5khz because thats where we are most sensitive. why is derectivity important? you said its a non factor in this but its very important is if its sending out a wide pattern locality isnt pin pointed it wont sound like an 8 it will go probably 2-3 feet wide at least(from this point it puts the 8 . he will have 2 other speakers mounted in the kicks starting out still in the band width of that 8 you trying to say it wont pull the mid bass out to the sides farther? ever play subs by themselves? in phase or out of phase they still sound like they are behind you untill you have the rest of the system on you knock the sub out of phase it bings the subs up front because of how the sound meshes by phase and time( its easier to do the higher the freq you go until about 200ish hz.) those midbasses in both harry kimura's car and rc's car play up to 450ish hz but there is was also talk of them being "gated" which is very possible even at which they still played from100-450 hz being behind you that should mess up the sound stage no? if you been in car stereo for a while you know what a stereo rear would do to the front dont you? its not voodoo its because it isnt directional/right/left seperated enough to matter.
https://resources.myeporia.com/company_38/SA-3055_OM.pdf a and c scales there looks like the filter has pretty significant differences untill about 1 k yes/no? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
audioholic
5,000+ posts
not a moderator
You just wont give up, will you? What a bunch of claptrap.
audioholic
5,000+ posts
not a moderator
Oh RC's GN is no real mystery to you eh? Well then maybe you should go on over to carsound, post on RC's board and inform him and the other experts who have debated about that install ever since, that you have it all figured out, and its so very simple. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/uhoh.gif.c07307dd22ee7e63e22fc8e9c614d1fd.gif
"the mid bass is up front in this situation so why do you keep saying i wanna mount it in the rear?"
Because it's your contention that due to the sound being 'omnidirectional', it matters not where you mount it. Or are you trying to tell that only applies to left and right (stereo seperation) as opposed to front and back? Like I said, by all means, mount a mono midbass in your rear parcel shelf, then go win a bunch of SQ trophies and prove all the experts wrong. Until then, you are simply blowing hot air to save face for a comment that you made, that even you have since rescinded (without admitting ANY wrong doing).
A weighted scale = nothing below 1khz-you said you get the same measurement reguardless? wasnt what you were measuring 200 hz and below lol.+ rtas dont measure right nor left they measure what hits the mic. man now you said i was full of bullshit. im going to run a little test for myself in a car wth someone from the forum to varify (i would use my truck but i would have to take out my xdp 4000 to do it and in that instance i would need the unit in my vehicle). i have seen it done a few times namely in center consols of trucks/suvs (1 in particular had 4 jl w7 12's 2 jl components in each door and a 8 w0 in the center consol/armrest). rc's car was done by speaker works it already had those in back when he bought the car. he might have changed the 12's but the location was the same and he changed the horns. harry's acura was almost the same way (speaker works also) if i want to talk to a world class expert i can call up my old installer(he doesnt install anymore but not much of anything has changed at all) he has a couple world championships under his belt in fact he actually changed the rules of sound offs on that note back in 97 ryan bess (the other backseat driver car) was medaling with the same idea only thing i cant answer is where he crossed over the ppi 8 that was up in front. when kirk and i listened to it up in/by chicago (midwest nationals) he (ryan)was going over alot of ideas with kirk for finals.
quote from you (Because it's your contention that due to the sound being 'omnidirectional', it matters not where you mount it) umm more like when and how its recieved. thing you keep over looking with a source being "omidirectional" is its balanced EVEN spread of sound at a given frequency. if it spreads WIDER than what it is it wont have a true center point to your ear.its location will seem to be big not 8". also the "bigger it seems" (not louder but bigger there is a difference) it wont pull directly to the center even if it did pull at all it would just pull to its widest seemed edge.
quote from you (Because it's your contention that due to the sound being 'omnidirectional', it matters not where you mount it) umm more like when and how its recieved. thing you keep over looking with a source being "omidirectional" is its balanced EVEN spread of sound at a given frequency. if it spreads WIDER than what it is it wont have a true center point to your ear.its location will seem to be big not 8". also the "bigger it seems" (not louder but bigger there is a difference) it wont pull directly to the center even if it did pull at all it would just pull to its widest seemed edge.
audioholic
5,000+ posts
not a moderator
Dude, what are you smoking? I did not say I got the same measurement regardless of the scale. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif When you started questioing if Id set and/or read my own RTA correctly (the one you thought was an EQ with 'bobbing lights' yesterday), I dismissed it as nonsense. Now you come back with I said this or that? Jesus, you aren't even following the thread anymore.
Second, did I say the RTA read left and right? Sad sad sad attempt here audiolife. Very sad. Let me break it down for you. I play a song, it shows the frequencies being broadcast by the speakers, I WATCH the freq spectrum to know the frequencies Im hearing as I LISTEN to the sound pass across my sound stage (left to right or vice versa). Im surprised you haven't out and out insisted Im lying about owning an RTA, knowing how to use one, and demanded a picture or something. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif
Yet again your pathetic attempts to undermine me or my words has failed miserably. Yes I know what an RTA is. Yes I know how to read one properly. Yes I own one. Yes you are getting worse at this game. Seriously, just go lick your wounds and find an arguement you can/will win. Toodles.
edit: BTW, your sentence structure, quotes and puctuation read like you are a 12 year old special-ed student. Its hard to respect someone who claims so much worldly experience when they cannot even put their own words down in a planned out and coherent manner.
This thread has actually been very helpful
Woooo Audioholic!
Woooo Audioholic!
audioholic
5,000+ posts
not a moderator
I want to apologize to everyone for dragging this out so long. Ive wanted to let this die too. I keep thinking I'll just say screw it and let him have the last word, but then his last word is such complete BS (that my RTA isn't really an RTA, or that I dont know how to use it, etc etc) or an out and out lie (that I said I had some
It became clear quite a while ago that I wont be convincing audiolife, even if he realizes he is wrong at this point. He has openly shown an unwillingness to admit his mistakes (see the 'midbass doesnt start going stereo till 200hz' comment he later changed around 100% without changing his story or admitting his mistake) therefore Ive seen no reason to think he will be doing anything other than trying to argue with me only for the sake of saving face here. Well I wont allow him to continue. He can and will have the last word, as skewed, openly wrong or no matter how much of a bold faced lie it is, he will have the last word. He wont be convinced, no matter what. And Im confident most people can make up their own minds whats true and what isn't after 7 pages.
Thankyou for everyone's support, but this has grown too silly. Have a great day. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
It became clear quite a while ago that I wont be convincing audiolife, even if he realizes he is wrong at this point. He has openly shown an unwillingness to admit his mistakes (see the 'midbass doesnt start going stereo till 200hz' comment he later changed around 100% without changing his story or admitting his mistake) therefore Ive seen no reason to think he will be doing anything other than trying to argue with me only for the sake of saving face here. Well I wont allow him to continue. He can and will have the last word, as skewed, openly wrong or no matter how much of a bold faced lie it is, he will have the last word. He wont be convinced, no matter what. And Im confident most people can make up their own minds whats true and what isn't after 7 pages.
Thankyou for everyone's support, but this has grown too silly. Have a great day. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
NO-ONE CARES
sounds to me like you did say that.... as a different scale would indeed change the reading lol thats 100% sure lol im dragging this out on purpose because its HELLA fun giving people a bullshit bait and make them eat crow. you say directivity is nothing IT IS everything its how your listening is precieved if its narrow (like that little picture in measure data of a real loudspeaker and yes it shows on and off axis it shows 360 degrees of axis (some where yanno even behind some wheres the speaker its gonna be off axis lol) and if its too far off axis it isnt gonna matter anyway because you wont hear it. its directional THE HIGHER THE FREQUENCY GOES WHICH INTURN HAS LESS WIDE DISPERSION. the bigger the speaker the higher the frequency the NARROWER IT sounds!!!! but heyyyy you didnt wanna try the math (i thought the physics in you would make you wanna see how it works) this what is called a beaming effect //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/naughty.gif.94359f346c0f1259df8038d60b41863e.gif to put it in simple terms for you what would be easier to find? a bass boat in a skinny short creek or that same bass boat in an ocean? doent that picture illistrate that? notice how big and even the sound is 360 degrees around it? kinda like an ocean (bigger)? if it produces a big wide open sound it becomes harder to pick where its located i mean for christs sakes "you have horns" a focused form of this very thing (lordy knows if you can pin point the actual location of the horns by the sounds coming from your horns its a pretty piss poor job of tuning and installing them.) same thing can be said for all of your speakers if you hear right where they are coming from. now back to the subject at hand a big speaker like that 12 that at that frequency would disperse more narrowly than an 8 yes or no?
to me thats a pretty f'in dumb comparrision not to mention the 12 will probably need to be attinuated a hella lot more than the 8, but for some reason i think you judge things by volume alot like power will make things play lowwer lol . if the 8 has a wider dispersion than the 12 at the higher frequency (which it would) then the drawing back to the center wont be NEARLY as dramatic as the 12 you attinuate it to no worse than an accent you still gained up front mid bass pathlengths between the kicks and 8 arent that bad plus have the 6.5's come in at somepoint where the 8 is still playing it will draw it out wider just as a center channel speaker can center with mids and highs in doors dashes and kicks except for the midbass is alot LESS directional. he already has the 8 but he is also getting a pretty nice 2 way set if set up right would be hampered a bit even if he went with mid basses in the doors he would be localized to the one by his left leg....funny noone brings that up lol but hey you are more than welcome by me to hook your horns up to a couple kwatts to see if you can get them to play down to 100 hz lol
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