midbass location

[pikers 10+ year member]

You’re avoiding any discussion on how you’ve come to these conclusions and not providing any established reference to back up these ideas which go against proven and well known theories on localization.

*Neutral*

But curious - HH - If you know the midbass is behind you, does that not influence your perception? What if it plays frequencies low enough to prevent a cue as to its location, and sympathetic vibrations are non-existent?

I'm actually quite curious, because I would like to know where a midbass should go in theory - but I like to listen to practical and book theory equally. One doesn't trump the other, and often times, they reinforce each other in ways neither party is typically aware of.

 

[pikers 10+ year member]

Your so full of Crap! The last place you want a Midbass or Sub is in front of you Retard

At this point, your should stop posting. Up front bass is the ideal.

 

[Thnking 10+ year member]

I'd assume Randy and other SQ guys have spent literally thousands upon thousands of hours messing with their cars. If they have can all agree that midbass's in the back generally isn't idea, then it's probably not. Whether or not they know why this is the case or not isn't the point, it's reality. If theory can describe why, then more power to it, however, to simply say their real world experience should be dismissed is assanine, at best.
In the real world things get dicy, speakers aren't perfect, neither are mounting locations, reflections, resonance, etc. You can't always account for all of it. To use azimuth cues as the be all end all of where drivers can be mounted is missing alot of other variables..

I agree. In reality midbass is much easier to mount in the front, which is why people have been doing it that way for X years. There definitely is a horizontal localization occurring with midbass frequencies, time alignment becomes an issue as well.

I definitely don't think installers real world experiences should be dismissed, like I've defended through these posts, I know they do a hell of a job and I don't believe they are wrong with what they do.

The real question being, can someone mount midbass in a "less than ideal" location and still obtain the same soundstage as someone who mounts them in the traditional way. .....Yes they can, it may take processing and time, but it's definitely possible.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

there is so much right and wrong with everything in here. number 1 thing is how perception is according to the rest of the system. crossover points, slopes, gain settings, phase path lengths and time alignment all play a huge role.

 

[xtremekustomz 10+ year member]

It has been done in a vehcile before. If I'm not mistaken Harry Kimura had an Acura and a Grand National that he put the midbass beind you and he had success with it. Just not an ideal location in my opinion.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

was richard clark's grand national. back in the day alot of "things you shouldnt do" were done because the way it was used was "outside of the box thinking". if you have a less than ideal location you arent going to set it up for all out midbass anyway. i have heard some systems with alot of midbass but if it has too much outside of the snappy sounds it sounds like mud to me. tastes are tastes but there are a million ways to skin a cat.

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

was richard clark's grand national. back in the day alot of "things you shouldnt do" were done because the way it was used was "outside of the box thinking". if you have a less than ideal location you arent going to set it up for all out midbass anyway. i have heard some systems with alot of midbass but if it has too much outside of the snappy sounds it sounds like mud to me. tastes are tastes but there are a million ways to skin a cat.

The grand national was an interesting car, that's for sure...

 

[Hebrew Hammer 10+ year member]

the amazing part about clarks car...was the sheer volume that it could play and stay totaly linear and nothing more...there was allot of smoke and mirrors and extra hidden drivers in the car for it to do the technical stuff.....

 

[xtremekustomz 10+ year member]

the amazing part about clarks car...was the sheer volume that it could play and stay totaly linear and nothing more...there was allot of smoke and mirrors and extra hidden drivers in the car for it to do the technical stuff.....

Yeah I heard there were some other speakers up front and also the rear midbass only played when volume was really cranked.

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

I wonder how that system would do in today's judging format?

 

[Thnking 10+ year member]

*Neutral*
But curious - HH - If you know the midbass is behind you, does that not influence your perception?

Sure it does. How that translates into varying horizontal localization is going to be per person per setup.

What if it plays frequencies low enough to prevent a cue as to its location, and sympathetic vibrations are non-existent?

If it's setup correctly, it can sound great in the rear.

I'm actually quite curious, because I would like to know where a midbass should go in theory - but I like to listen to practical and book theory equally. One doesn't trump the other, and often times, they reinforce each other in ways neither party is typically aware of.

It depends on what frequencies are being reproduced and how the sound is recorded/output.

If the reproduced frequencies are above 250hz (audibly) then I would mount them for the best horizontal localization.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

I wonder how that system would do in today's judging format?

depending on the class it was in i would bet it would still do very well. (some classes dont run under ultimate rules that EVERYONE back in the day had to run) some of the wow factor would be off as judges would be like "been there done that" which is why i got out of it. started of as door speakers were common then was kicks and horns then it went to dash now its just a cluster #$%$ (dont mean that in a bad way its just if you go for an off the hook score you will do something different each time heck my installer back in the day did the first backseat driver car lol) i have heard some of the new cars and remember alot of the old the old cars always seemed more ground breaking, not that the newwer ones **** but they sorta had a little more to build off of than the older cars did(other peoples trial and error).

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

heck my installer back in the day did the first backseat driver car

The Festiva that was in CA&E back in the early 90's? An entire generation of kittens were struck down because of that abomination.

My understanding of the current SQ judging is that install is nothing more than is it securely mounted and is an all or nothing score. The actual listening portion of the judging is what matters. None of the gizmos that RC added to the car would matter anymore because they don't affect the sound and thus won't earn points.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

wasnt a festiva it was a le mans and last i knew the lemans still held the record for biggest point differential (53 point win) in pro class world finals history. also did the first perfect 40 and unlike what everyone said at the time it was DRIVEN to local shows lol

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

The Festiva that was in CA&E back in the early 90's? An entire generation of kittens were struck down because of that abomination.
My understanding of the current SQ judging is that install is nothing more than is it securely mounted and is an all or nothing score. The actual listening portion of the judging is what matters. None of the gizmos that RC added to the car would matter anymore because they don't affect the sound and thus won't earn points.

depends on the class ultimate or standard. those cars back then werent just show cars.......when i got out of it is when everyone did the "painted fiberglass" everything and kick panels werent always used. i heard some cars at finals that i had a chance to listen to the drums and the voice tracks on and they scored them way way way too nicely compared to what i would have. if your sound stage has holes in it you are supost to score it/penalize it just like you would if it had sucky midbass or subs. meaning 160 points possible for staging and imaging there is noway a car that has holes scores 110 and a car that doesnt gets 120 then turn around and score the car with holes 140 out of 150 for tonal accuracy then the car that imaged well gets a 90........i can go on and on.........//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif