Pitfalls of replacing midbass driver in passive setup

Flyingscotsman

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I'm looking to do a new install and replace the midbass drivers of the focal ES100K with a 6.5" set rather than the 4's to get more bass up front as they were lacking in this area when installed im my last vehicle.
The question is.. are there any pitfalls with changing the midbass driver with one from another manufacturer?
If so, what should I look for in the 6.5's?
I'll be powering the components with 2 channels of a JL XD400/4, the other 2 channels bridged to power a JL 10" basswedge.
I may change the sub for something custom further down the line, but my initial concern is whether a new set of 6.5"s will integrate with the tweeters and crossovers I already have.
 

deez283

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Generally it is not recommended to mix and match speakers with passive crossovers that were designed for a specific set. Does your head unit have active XO's?
 

winkychevelle

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It all depends on the x over.

If the x over has a hpf for the mid you may not be able to get lower midbass. And if the lpf is set too high it may sound muddy on the high end.

That said many x overs don't use a hpf for the mid and typically use a 3-3500 lpf which is suitable for many speakers.
 

winkychevelle

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Ive had a look at the manual online, and it looks like the crossover has the option of hpf or full for the mid.
The tweeter crossover point is 3.5khz
Then I don't see why it wouldn't work. You could always build your own cross overs or buy a set that matches your needs.
 

Flyingscotsman

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Then I don't see why it wouldn't work. You could always build your own cross overs or buy a set that matches your needs.
That's good news then!
I guess I should look for a mid with a flatish frequency response up to around 3.5khz and a 4 ohm impedance, is there anything else I should look for in the parameters to match the crossover?
 

winkychevelle

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That's good news then!
I guess I should look for a mid with a flatish frequency response up to around 3.5khz and a 4 ohm impedance, is there anything else I should look for in the parameters to match the crossover?
Not really without a rta it's hard to measure the frequency roll offs of the crossovers you have.

If you drop to lower ohm speaker it can drastically change the crossover point. So if stick with the same ohm load

You could do the math to figure it out but honestly I'd probably just wing it and find a fairly efficient mid.

Personally I don't use crossover boxes but you only have 3 channels to play with and unknown dsp or crossover controls. Otherwise I would run each tweeter to a channel and each mid to a channel an set the crossovers with a dsp of some type.

But that would require a separate amp for your sub and bring more careful to not blow your tweeters.

Looking up you component set the cross over is just a 3500hz lpf on the mid so pretty much any decent 6.5inch mid should work. Though some won't. The es165k set uses the same crossover from what I've seen.

Focal is stupid expensive I might would suggest the ddaudio a series 6.5 mid it's reasonably priced and a good performer.
 
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ThxOne

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There may be nothing wrong with the mid-bass output of those speakers. Some of the best mid-bass I have heard came from a pair of old 5.25" Kevlar Focal's.

I don't know how they were installed before or in what however my suggestion would be get your doors deadened very well, mount those Focal's tight to the mounting surface, seal all gaps and holes on the doors then couple the drivers to the door panels with a fast ring type of thing. Make sure they are IN PHASE. If they still don't do it for you, at least your doors will be ready for whatever you put in there. I think they will do it for you if the doors are prepared correctly.

Edit... I just realized that Focal is European. 100 is mm so 4" here. Yeah, 4" aren't know for a lot of volume on mid-bass frequencies. They do make a 165mm but those are $800+. I'd still deaden the doors.
 
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Flyingscotsman

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Not really without a rta it's hard to measure the frequency roll offs of the crossovers you have.

If you drop to lower ohm speaker it can drastically change the crossover point. So if stick with the same ohm load

You could do the math to figure it out but honestly I'd probably just wing it and find a fairly efficient mid.

Personally I don't use crossover boxes but you only have 3 channels to play with and unknown dsp or crossover controls. Otherwise I would run each tweeter to a channel and each mid to a channel an set the crossovers with a dsp of some type.

But that would require a separate amp for your sub and bring more careful to not blow your tweeters.

Looking up you component set the cross over is just a 3500hz lpf on the mid so pretty much any decent 6.5inch mid should work. Though some won't. The es165k set uses the same crossover from what I've seen.

Focal is stupid expensive I might would suggest the ddaudio a series 6.5 mid it's reasonably priced and a good performer.
The focals are expensive, not as expensive here as they are in the US for some reason.
They were more than I wanted to pay, but they were the only decent 4" components I could get my hands on at the time.
Those dd audios look nice, they're £270 a pair here, how much are they in the US?
 

Flyingscotsman

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There may be nothing wrong with the mid-bass output of those speakers. Some of the best mid-bass I have heard came from a pair of old 5.25" Kevlar Focal's.

I don't know how they were installed before or in what however my suggestion would be get your doors deadened very well, mount those Focal's tight to the mounting surface, seal all gaps and holes on the doors then couple the drivers to the door panels with a fast ring type of thing. Make sure they are IN PHASE. If they still don't do it for you, at least your doors will be ready for whatever you put in there. I think they will do it for you if the doors are prepared correctly.

Edit... I just realized that Focal is European. 100 is mm so 4" here. Yeah, 4" aren't know for a lot of volume on mid-bass frequencies. They do make a 165mm but those are $800+. I'd still deaden the doors.
I'll be deadening the doors anyway, but yeah the 4's don't really go low enough.
I agree with you.. A friend of mine had the kevlar 5 1/4's in his car years ago and they sounded amazing.
 
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winkychevelle

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The focals are expensive, not as expensive here as they are in the US for some reason.
They were more than I wanted to pay, but they were the only decent 4" components I could get my hands on at the time.
Those dd audios look nice, they're £270 a pair here, how much are they in the US?
350 usd for the AW-6.5A
 

mat3833

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I've swapped midbass drivers a few times using passive crossovers. The only thing to really know is make sure to match the Ohm load of the original, and make sure the response graph is clean up to the crossover point in the passive unit.

Passive crossovers are really simple, and swapping drivers is even simpler. Just make sure your midbass can play up to the crossover point, and make sure you keep the sensitivity at or above where the original driver was and you will be fine. In your case not alot of 6.5" drivers are ment to play up where a 4" driver will. I bet your crossover point is around 3500 or 4k, and if that's the case you are kinda SOL for finding a cheap-ish driver that will play that high and sound decent.

Off the top of my head the Hertz ML 1650.3 will do it, but they are quite expensive.

Matt
 
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Flyingscotsman

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I've swapped midbass drivers a few times using passive crossovers. The only thing to really know is make sure to match the Ohm load of the original, and make sure the response graph is clean up to the crossover point in the passive unit.

Passive crossovers are really simple, and swapping drivers is even simpler. Just make sure your midbass can play up to the crossover point, and make sure you keep the sensitivity at or above where the original driver was and you will be fine. In your case not alot of 6.5" drivers are ment to play up where a 4" driver will. I bet your crossover point is around 3500 or 4k, and if that's the case you are kinda SOL for finding a cheap-ish driver that will play that high and sound decent.

Off the top of my head the Hertz ML 1650.3 will do it, but they are quite expensive.

Matt
Thanks Matt 👍🏻
 

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