Kid at school selling 2 13w7's for 600 for both

[Telegon80 10+ year member]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif I wasnt saying only tools drive ferrari. I said only tools drive ferrari because they are drving a ferrari.
Also, Adire unsuccessful? You realize that when they where sucessful as a store front that still only made up a small percentage (like 3%) of anual income. Adire builds for companies you wouldnt think they built for.

And if JL is always pushing the envelope then how come the w7 is still their top woofer when it has been outperformed on more than one occasion? They've had how long to revamp it?

W7 came out in 2002. It has only been 4 years. I doubt you'll see a W7v2 for a while.......

 

[CBFryman2 5,000+ posts]

Because JL is concerned about their image. Winning SQ/SPL competitions or having Broncos with 22 w7's isnt really the image they want to put out there....... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

No? So I geuss Ferrari should hang up their hat because winning the Le Mans doesnt continue to show their product is top notch?

Perhaps they should fire Michle Shumarker (sp, stupid names) because winning F1 races does nothing for them.

Good logic there. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eyebrow.gif.fe2c18d8720fe8c7eaed347b21ea05a5.gif

 

[CBFryman2 5,000+ posts]

W7 came out in 2002. It has only been 4 years. I doubt you'll see a W7v2 for a while.......

in 4 years how many times has SI changed their Mag design? 3 times. Each time it got better and better and now they have one of the best products on the market in my opinion.

 

[Telegon80 10+ year member]

No? So I geuss Ferrari should hang up their hat because winning the Le Mans doesnt continue to show their product is top notch?
Perhaps they should fire Michle Shumarker (sp, stupid names) because winning F1 races does nothing for them.

Good logic there. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eyebrow.gif.fe2c18d8720fe8c7eaed347b21ea05a5.gif

It's a different realm of products here. You cant compare a company that sells 10 cars a month to a company that sells thousands of speakers a month.
And just FYI Michael Schumacher retired from F1........//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/blackeye.gif.66a1670f5aaf7f406e783a63e3387dc5.gif

 

[Telegon80 10+ year member]

in 4 years how many times has SI changed their Mag design? 3 times. Each time it got better and better and now they have one of the best products on the market in my opinion.

Si who?

 

[Telegon80 10+ year member]

No? So I geuss Ferrari should hang up their hat because winning the Le Mans doesnt continue to show their product is top notch?
Perhaps they should fire Michle Shumarker (sp, stupid names) because winning F1 races does nothing for them.

Good logic there. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eyebrow.gif.fe2c18d8720fe8c7eaed347b21ea05a5.gif

Also, JL doesnt need to do any competitions... the name is made and the company reputation is maintained by the high quality of products it continues to put out there.
hence a reason why sponsorship to JL is like bleh.... no one gets free JL speakers.. go talk to any other mainstream speaker company about sponsorship and theyll gladly unload a full container fresh from Indonesia just for you!

 

[CBFryman2 5,000+ posts]

Si who?

Stereo Integrity.

Stereointegrity.com

 

[CBFryman2 5,000+ posts]

Also, JL doesnt need to do any competitions... the name is made and the company reputation is maintained by the high quality of products it continues to put out there.
hence a reason why sponsorship to JL is like bleh.... no one gets free JL speakers.. go talk to any other mainstream speaker company about sponsorship and theyll gladly unload a full container fresh from Indonesia just for you!

Has nothing to do with it. If it was the best then thoes winning competitions with out sponsorship would be running JL. That isnt the case. Ask a TRUE audiophile, the ones that spend every wakeing moment improving the sound stage in a car, what gear they would be running if they could be running any gear. JL likely would NOT be on the top of their list.

JL's dealers do the marketing for them. Kids buy what is popular and what the guy at the shop said would be loud and sound good. If you think the w7 is the best that is your opinion. That doesnt mean that others can think there is better out there especially for the price. I'm not saying JL makes a bad product. I'm saying there is better our there in my opinion and in others opinions for a much better price.

JL has been around for years and years just like Fosgate. They started before ground pounding started so when the ground pounders that now own the shop got into care audio JL audio was the thing and that is what they eventually ended up selling. Give some of these internet companies 5-10 years. RE is already on its way.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

You are all just wasting keystrokes.

You're not going to change each others mind.

 

[CBFryman2 5,000+ posts]

You are all just wasting keystrokes.
You're not going to change each others mind.

I'm not trying to change anyones mind. I'm participating in a reletively civil discussion about JL's product vs others. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

That thing that normally doesnt exist on CA.com. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

 

[Telegon80 10+ year member]

Has nothing to do with it. If it was the best then thoes winning competitions with out sponsorship would be running JL. That isnt the case. Ask a TRUE audiophile, the ones that spend every wakeing moment improving the sound stage in a car, what gear they would be running if they could be running any gear. JL likely would NOT be on the top of their list.
JL's dealers do the marketing for them. Kids buy what is popular and what the guy at the shop said would be loud and sound good. If you think the w7 is the best that is your opinion. That doesnt mean that others can think there is better out there especially for the price. I'm not saying JL makes a bad product. I'm saying there is better our there in my opinion and in others opinions for a much better price.

JL has been around for years and years just like Fosgate. They started before ground pounding started so when the ground pounders that now own the shop got into care audio JL audio was the thing and that is what they eventually ended up selling. Give some of these internet companies 5-10 years. RE is already on its way.

yeah but True True audiophiles are what... 2%-8% of the audiophile consumer base..... let the small fish have the True True Deep Deep audiophiles, JL will gladly keep the other 98% of listeners.....

and in a couple of years sue the shit out of all those companies that are on their way now... for patent infringement. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

 

[w00tah 10+ year member]

No? So I geuss Ferrari should hang up their hat because winning the Le Mans doesnt continue to show their product is top notch?
Perhaps they should fire Michle Shumarker (sp, stupid names) because winning F1 races does nothing for them.

Good logic there. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eyebrow.gif.fe2c18d8720fe8c7eaed347b21ea05a5.gif

Which Le Mans races are you talking about Ferrari winning?

Shu is a tard driving a large, overly aerodynamic car powered by a Ferrari engine, enough said.

Now, for my take on all this JL V.S. xyz stuff: I own a JL 12w0 and a Powerbass Black 12. Out of the two, the JL sounds better, the PB gets louder, at least in the box I have. The JL retails over 100 bucks, the PB is 50. Which is better for a daily car? Either. I like both.

However, I can't justify the w7's price, no matter how good it sounds. There are products out there that cost a fraction of the w7 and have equal, if not, IMO, better performance. D9, DD 9500, Oz ME, and SI Mag for some examples. I'd rather buy something that is good quality and can compete with products that are a lot more expensive.

My .02 cents here though.

Morgan

 

[CBFryman2 5,000+ posts]

No one is infringeing on anything JL. The only thing JL has patented is their DM motor topogrophy. There are other topogrophys that acheive the same thing with different approachs. Split gap and LMT are the two oldest and you can use them without infringement IIRC. Though LMT and TCsounds are synonomous with each other. TCsounds isnt up and comming because they have been around as a build house for a while now and, as already stated, are building for many companies. Most notably Eclipse. Eclipse two highest end subwoofers are both TCsounds woofers. Eclipse's new basket is tooled and patented by TCsounds.

XBL^2 was recently patended by Adire and is basically split gap in reverse. In fact Adire has recently gone after other main stream companies for patent infringement. I dont know the whole story but someone was machiening the top plate to almost reconstruct XBL^2. Basicaly with XBL^2 the magnet split into two instead of the coil split into two.

The new XXX's use Split gap topogrophy. Two coils so that one takes over as the other moves out of the gap making for flat Bl and extreme movement capeability. nearly 20mm one way more than the w7 for around the same price. I'm not entirely impressed with the new XXX either, however.

Then there is the good old fasioned well designed over hung and underhung drivers. No one can patent either and most speakers on the market today use one or the other.

JL's DM motor topogrophy is something, I will give them that...but it isnt the only way to get there (long stroke with flat Bl) and isnt nessicarily the lowest distortion either. It is decently effient and doesnt sacrafise upper bass. Low end monstors and XBL^2 go togather like eggs in a basket for some reason even though XBL^2 itself does not directly affect bandwith. In fact XBL^2 has sucessfully been used in mid range drivers and has applications in PA tweeters.

 

[CBFryman2 5,000+ posts]

Which Le Mans races are you talking about Ferrari winning?

Shu is a tard driving a large, overly aerodynamic car powered by a Ferrari engine, enough said.

Now, for my take on all this JL V.S. xyz stuff: I own a JL 12w0 and a Powerbass Black 12. Out of the two, the JL sounds better, the PB gets louder, at least in the box I have. The JL retails over 100 bucks, the PB is 50. Which is better for a daily car? Either. I like both.

However, I can't justify the w7's price, no matter how good it sounds. There are products out there that cost a fraction of the w7 and have equal, if not, IMO, better performance. D9, DD 9500, Oz ME, and SI Mag for some examples. I'd rather buy something that is good quality and can compete with products that are a lot more expensive.

My .02 cents here though.

Morgan

Agreed.

In what aspect does the w7 outperform the SI Mag? The effiency different is so minute it isnt worth mentioning, displacement capeability differences are almost negligible, the Mag can handle more power, and IMO the Mag sounds better. All things equal (never are in the real world, but hypothetical) the Mag has the output advantage ported (power not being a limiting factor) and they are about the same sealed. In fact Loyd's testing showed they have near equal output capeabilities. Between the 13" and the Mag 15" the Mag wins hands down in the output department.

Agian I will say the w7 is a great woofer...but I've had bad luck with the larger two and the price tag isnt worth it IMO. It doesnt get much better than the Mag in the SQ department and if you need more output the w7 isnt your woofer as it wasnt built for shear output. Neither was the Mag. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[JohnBlayz142 10+ year member]

Incorrect. Fi has already won more SPL world titles than JL. So has RE, Adire, DD... JL isnt even winning big time SQ competitions. Kicker has been beating out JL for a while in the SQ competition department. That goes with out mentioning true audiophil companies like rainbow.
Yes, the z06 has an inferior suspension. Chevy is still using leaf springs on the c6's. I say most likely about the ferrari because most ferraris do. Especially ones compareable to the z06 on performance terms. But this isnt a car discussion.

Well I would hope Fi has more SPL titles than JL does, they make an SPL oriented woofer and JL doesn't. I actually think that the guys over at JL would smile if they heard you say that, because they don't want their products in fart box SPL installs.

There are SQ competitors out there running JL gear, and some have won using it. You seem pretty knowledgable about car audio, so I don't know why you don't understand that the install is going to determine the outcome of the sound quality.

JL has nothing to prove. And I still don't think they are overpriced....expensive, yes, but you get what you pay for in this day and age.