Just Bought a Pair of CVR 15's 2010...Now to build a box

[coloLOUDo]

bought a 15 older cvr for 40 bucks, sold it later for 120. boom.

LOl same, I had 2 CVR 10;s in a transline slot-ported box, paid $50 for it from a friend in-need, 9 months later I moved, got $150... (Borat voice) GREAT SUCCESS ^_^

Home theater use? Meh...

 

[iamamp3pimp 5,000+ posts]

So aside from all the banter, honestly I like Kicker products. I have seen and done a few installs with them that sounded really good (Not on the same level as PSI/SA/etc but look at the price point?

Anyway, OP you have a PM on the way

 

[sobe3yourself. 10+ year member]

Ok Guys just joined never built a box before but I just bought these subs and am planning to put them in my house for a little extra bass... That being said Size is not a problem as long as it can get in and out of the door. I am wanting to build a Band pass box with both speakers faced out and sealed on the front (with plexiglass) and ported on the back these are dual 4 ohm and I plan to wire them together a 1 ohm. Now that is about as far as i made it because other than the dimensions in in the manual for a sealed and ported box I'm not sure how to decide how big each chamber needs to be. Any Help would be greatly appreciated

What kind of vehicle are you putting them in?

reading > you

 

[pro-rabbit 5,000+ posts]

indeed //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

 

[duanebro 10+ year member]

op still looking for help? First, forget kickers suggested sizes, they are for cars. Second, build two enclosures. they will help to even out room modes, or " dead spots." Plus they will be easier to move.

Also why one ohm? what amp are you going to use? most home and pro amps can't handle that. Wire for 4 ohms and push them with a crown xls or inuke. plenty of power.

 

[duanebro 10+ year member]

I took a few minutes to model it. I see no advantage for a band pass over a ported design. (6th order could get a bit louder but the box would be twice the size.)

for a ported box for one sub. 4.3 cf net @ 25 Hz. A slot port 15" x 2" would be 25.5" long. No port noise issues @ 500 watts. You will need a subsonic filter at 20hz.

Would work great for HT.

F3 30hz

F10 21 Hz with ssf. (no room gain)

projected spl at THX levels! (120db) for the pair. That shoud make your house flex. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

EDIT: Now I am forgetting some info that was provided. I used the T/S specs for the '07 model cvr. But the title states 2010? I didn't see any info on kickers web site for a 2010 model. Are they different? Do you have the T/S parameters in the manual? I will update my model if I used the wrong sub.

 

[ktk 10+ year member]

Behringer NU1000 iNuke Power Amplifier is this amp rated at RMS or max watts looking for one that has about 500 watts rms per channel

 

[ktk 10+ year member]

I took a few minutes to model it. I see no advantage for a band pass over a ported design. (6th order could get a bit louder but the box would be twice the size.)
for a ported box for one sub. 4.3 cf net @ 25 Hz. A slot port 15" x 2" would be 25.5" long. No port noise issues @ 500 watts. You will need a subsonic filter at 20hz.

Would work great for HT.

F3 30hz

F10 21 Hz with ssf. (no room gain)

projected spl at THX levels! (120db) for the pair. That shoud make your house flex. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

EDIT: Now I am forgetting some info that was provided. I used the T/S specs for the '07 model cvr. But the title states 2010? I didn't see any info on kickers web site for a 2010 model. Are they different? Do you have the T/S parameters in the manual? I will update my model if I used the wrong sub.

Don't mean to sound stupid but what are the T/S parameters?

 

[Moble Enclosurs 10+ year member]

Ok Guys just joined never built a box before but I just bought these subs and am planning to put them in my house for a little extra bass... That being said Size is not a problem as long as it can get in and out of the door. I am wanting to build a Band pass box with both speakers faced out and sealed on the front (with plexiglass) and ported on the back these are dual 4 ohm and I plan to wire them together a 1 ohm. Now that is about as far as i made it because other than the dimensions in in the manual for a sealed and ported box I'm not sure how to decide how big each chamber needs to be. Any Help would be greatly appreciated

Hello! I have to mention a few thing here that might shed some guidance and I hope it helps. First, as far as the type of enclosure, without doing any previous modeling of the room and driver correlation with a specific response goal, you will not yet be able to determine if your indeed, specific, bandpass request will be optimal for this setup in regard to room modal gain and driver specifications. The first thing to do is figure how these subs will model in the room. And a little separation of them may be more beneficial for DJ type applications, such as putting each one in a high efficient design in separate locations. This will allow more control over the response curve in a larger space, because over a certain cubic ft area in relation to power output, a higher negative gain will occur in some spots in the room. These need to be compensated for in order for the output to correct the loss so you do not have to push it to the limits to get anything out of it effectively.

the first step in determining this, would be to calculate the room function at specific points where people may be located, and use that plot to gain a negative response curve for the designs. As mentioned before, the best way to control the losses, or dips in the response that WILL occur, this has to be done by figuring the best location(s) of the subwoofers in the room. Corner placement obviously takes care of most of the horizontal plane modes (axial) that will effect you the most, but making sure it is done properly is key. Sometimes a few feet from the corners will provide the best response, and this would be determined by the gain response dips and when they occur in the frequency response of the design.

So, in order for you to know what to do with an enclosure design, or two that may be more efficient to utilize for control, then this is a necessity. What are the room dimensions that you are working with, and where are the possible locations of the people and setup going to be? These are vital first steps to get the best idea of what design to use and where.

Hope that helps you understand the first process in figuring for a design idea.

 

[duanebro 10+ year member]

Hello! I have to mention a few thing here that might shed some guidance and I hope it helps. First, as far as the type of enclosure, without doing any previous modeling of the room and driver correlation with a specific response goal, you will not yet be able to determine if your indeed, specific, bandpass request will be optimal for this setup in regard to room modal gain and driver specifications. The first thing to do is figure how these subs will model in the room. And a little separation of them may be more beneficial for DJ type applications, such as putting each one in a high efficient design in separate locations. This will allow more control over the response curve in a larger space, because over a certain cubic ft area in relation to power output, a higher negative gain will occur in some spots in the room. These need to be compensated for in order for the output to correct the loss so you do not have to push it to the limits to get anything out of it effectively.
the first step in determining this, would be to calculate the room function at specific points where people may be located, and use that plot to gain a negative response curve for the designs. As mentioned before, the best way to control the losses, or dips in the response that WILL occur, this has to be done by figuring the best location(s) of the subwoofers in the room. Corner placement obviously takes care of most of the horizontal plane modes (axial) that will effect you the most, but making sure it is done properly is key. Sometimes a few feet from the corners will provide the best response, and this would be determined by the gain response dips and when they occur in the frequency response of the design.

So, in order for you to know what to do with an enclosure design, or two that may be more efficient to utilize for control, then this is a necessity. What are the room dimensions that you are working with, and where are the possible locations of the people and setup going to be? These are vital first steps to get the best idea of what design to use and where.

Hope that helps you understand the first process in figuring for a design idea.

I will try to translate from engineer to English. The room will effect the response greatly. Using more than one subwoofer at different places in the room can/will help. And different type/size/tuning can sound better in your room.

Thank you.

ME, please understand I am not trying to diminish what you are saying, Yes you will have gains and nulls at different frequencies and different locations. and I am sure you can try to eliminate some of these in the design. But if the OP cares about having the flattest fr then a powerful eq and a way to measure the rooms response will be needed in the end. I see no need to limit the response and have worse group delay and phase by using a bp type enclosure. I would say that a sealed box could be better in this regard depending on the room. However using a DSP can help more than the design, including the room modeling, can. Also how can you model the room accurately? Everything in the room changes the response, It is easier to play with location of the subs and eq to get the response you like, than to try to model it. Plus, and please no one take this the wrong way, I don't think the OP, or people in general, care if they have a flat response. As long as it is not WAY off, it is fine. If I am wrong than everyone would use a HT design service to come to there house and setup/tune everything. (i.e. look at how many people LOVE Bose!)

 

[duanebro 10+ year member]

Don't mean to sound stupid but what are the T/S parameters?

Don't worry a lot of people don't know. here is a link: LoudspeakerBuilder.ca - (Thiele-Small Parameters)

Short version is they are specs that determine how a speaker will respond to a box. These include fs, vas, Qtc. Plus a bunch more you can look at in the link I gave, if you want.

You should be able to find these in the manual.

 

[Moble Enclosurs 10+ year member]

I will try to translate from engineer to English. The room will effect the response greatly. Using more than one subwoofer at different places in the room can/will help. And different type/size/tuning can sound better in your room.
Thank you.

ME, please understand I am not trying to diminish what you are saying, Yes you will have gains and nulls at different frequencies and different locations. and I am sure you can try to eliminate some of these in the design. But if the OP cares about having the flattest fr then a powerful eq and a way to measure the rooms response will be needed in the end. I see no need to limit the response and have worse group delay and phase by using a bp type enclosure. I would say that a sealed box could be better in this regard depending on the room. However using a DSP can help more than the design, including the room modeling, can. Also how can you model the room accurately? Everything in the room changes the response, It is easier to play with location of the subs and eq to get the response you like, than to try to model it. Plus, and please no one take this the wrong way, I don't think the OP, or people in general, care if they have a flat response. As long as it is not WAY off, it is fine. If I am wrong than everyone would use a HT design service to come to there house and setup/tune everything. (i.e. look at how many people LOVE Bose!)

Don;t worry, you cannot diminish anything I say.....it's not probable. Anyways, here are a few things to note about what you say.........

1. It's is not about having a flat response curve. It is about creating the curve you DO WANT.

2. The EQ being a necessity is not something you have control over when dealing with larger rooms. If you care enough about it, yes....it is recommended, BUT you cannot leave out the design being able to help. Remember the saying, "two heads are better than one"? Well, in this case, two ways to control response is better than one. No difference.

3. A sealed box is not an ideal design the larger the room. You will have enough losses based on distance and time, that will effect the said phase and GD by limiting the designs efficiency and abilities. It is not the recommended design in a larger room, but more so in a smaller room-and since you feel the need to "simplify" my meanings, I will not get into it right now.

4. If you do not know how to model a room accurately, then you have to reason to try to simplify what I discuss. As you, I am not diminishing you either, but if you have to ask the question, then you do not know the answer yourself. It can be done......trust me. Otherwise, designing would be pointless, right?

5. Making things easier to do, does not mean it is more accurate. In fact, its normally quite the opposite. I understand that the common consumer wants to walk right in to the nearest sh itty best buy and here whatever they want to hear to make them comfortable with a purchase. But this is not the way I do things, I hope you understand. For those that want to be simple, then just do not listen to my guidance. You will be exactly where you want to be, no worries. Everybody's happy. For those who want more accurate products based on everything they should be, then that is why I am here.

6. Yes, location of the sub is a nice controlling factor in the room response. That was mentioned.

7. BOSE............wow. Did you know that their world changing engineering was not even their own creation? Plus, they are mostly famous for dipole propagation, not room response control(though this is never discussed). Everybody loves them because of marketing skills, and the ability to keep it simple for the customer and make them believe that what they make is better engineered than anything else....when in fact, quarter-wave design, and fancy electronics controlling is their way to do this. Not equalization, or room gain control, or anything to do with a room at all( I say that in a sense of response control). If that was true, they would offer a service to have a product designed from scratch. And if they do, that would be the only thing they are doing correct.

Their key to creating consumer based sound is to add low end output to all of their small designs. Yes, they are a great company, but not anything different than anyone else that engineers for the same purpose(key words..same purpose. that means only the few that do).

And last, the reason it works for most people, is that they either have not heard the difference of true stereo imaging, EVEN in bass reproduction(its possible), or they simply do not care about the specifics and accept the errors that come with the fancy designs, becasue the ear, as I mentioned before, is very forgiving. We can adjust to a sound or even a noise within a few minutes of listening. That is the key to marketing a product. Make it acceptable and it will be accepted. A great example of this is anechoic response curves. I use those in my store for my store products. Though they are not as accurate as full custom designs, many will not be able to tell the difference, BECAUSE of the ear factor of forgiveness. It is a matter of acceptance as long as, like you said, "it is not WAY off".

Im not arguing, I am controlling my abilities to give great advice and not let people try to step over it. Nothing personal at all....just business. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[Moble Enclosurs 10+ year member]

Please do not take offense to that either. It is not about that. I just wanted to mention that and everything is kewl. To the OP, I hope you are getting some great information and I want to apologize if what I say is confusing. I cannot help it. It is how I talk based on my engineering experience. I do try to simplify things the best I can so I hope at least some of it was understandable. And I have to say, thank you Duanebro for helping simplify it.

Yes, the room makes problems, and the design as well as an eq will help you fix the issues. That is the main thing. I understand that some people just do not want to here the specifics, but I find it easier for those to understand it if they want to do things themselves. Just trying to help. I hope I did. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[duanebro 10+ year member]

I feel I need to respond as I think some of what I wrote wasn't written clearly.

Don;t worry, you cannot diminish anything I say.....it's not probable. Anyways, here are a few things to note about what you say.........
This makes me think of the Sicilian in the Princess Bride, "It's Inconceivable!" //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

1. It's is not about having a flat response curve. It is about creating the curve you DO WANT.

Very true, but what curve DO you want? I am not sure I know what I want even, how is any one to know what sounds good to someone else? The answer is, I believe, that everyone wants something different - it is this way with everything in life, and audio is even more so. This is why there are so many companies competing for your business.

2. The EQ being a necessity is not something you have control over when dealing with larger rooms. If you care enough about it, yes....it is recommended, BUT you cannot leave out the design being able to help. Remember the saying, "two heads are better than one"? Well, in this case, two ways to control response is better than one. No difference.

I agree, you can not expect to slap the sub in a box an be able to eq it to what you want. My design I posted does assume a larger room, I don't model rooms as I have found it is not possible to get an accurate model. I am forced to make some assumptions if I can't go and measure the room. I am curious as to what you would suggest for the OP if he did give the info you asked for.

3. A sealed box is not an ideal design the larger the room. You will have enough losses based on distance and time, that will effect the said phase and GD by limiting the designs efficiency and abilities. It is not the recommended design in a larger room, but more so in a smaller room-and since you feel the need to "simplify" my meanings, I will not get into it right now.

I didn't suggest a sealed box, I just meant that the GD, and phase, are better in a sealed enclosure.

4. If you do not know how to model a room accurately, then you have to reason to try to simplify what I discuss. As you, I am not diminishing you either, but if you have to ask the question, then you do not know the answer yourself. It can be done......trust me. Otherwise, designing would be pointless, right?

I said something about this above. I will add that I have found rooms can't be changed, but sub placement and using multiple subs does have a huge effect. An search will give you lots of info on how to figure this out.

5. Making things easier to do, does not mean it is more accurate. In fact, its normally quite the opposite. I understand that the common consumer wants to walk right in to the nearest sh itty best buy and here whatever they want to hear to make them comfortable with a purchase. But this is not the way I do things, I hope you understand. For those that want to be simple, then just do not listen to my guidance. You will be exactly where you want to be, no worries. Everybody's happy. For those who want more accurate products based on everything they should be, then that is why I am here.

6. Yes, location of the sub is a nice controlling factor in the room response. That was mentioned.

7. BOSE............wow. Did you know that their world changing engineering was not even their own creation? Plus, they are mostly famous for dipole propagation, not room response control(though this is never discussed). Everybody loves them because of marketing skills, and the ability to keep it simple for the customer and make them believe that what they make is better engineered than anything else....when in fact, quarter-wave design, and fancy electronics controlling is their way to do this. Not equalization, or room gain control, or anything to do with a room at all( I say that in a sense of response control). If that was true, they would offer a service to have a product designed from scratch. And if they do, that would be the only thing they are doing correct.

Their key to creating consumer based sound is to add low end output to all of their small designs. Yes, they are a great company, but not anything different than anyone else that engineers for the same purpose(key words..same purpose. that means only the few that do).

And last, the reason it works for most people, is that they either have not heard the difference of true stereo imaging, EVEN in bass reproduction(its possible), or they simply do not care about the specifics and accept the errors that come with the fancy designs, becasue the ear, as I mentioned before, is very forgiving. We can adjust to a sound or even a noise within a few minutes of listening. That is the key to marketing a product. Make it acceptable and it will be accepted. A great example of this is anechoic response curves. I use those in my store for my store products. Though they are not as accurate as full custom designs, many will not be able to tell the difference, BECAUSE of the ear factor of forgiveness. It is a matter of acceptance as long as, like you said, "it is not WAY off".

Ok, I didn't write that good enough, or you saw bose and just went off. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif I know the feeling please let me clarify: Bose Blose. I don't like them. They ****. They are a ripoff.... Ok, now to the point, I was trying to show how much your ears can be tricked. I think I failed.

Im not arguing, I am controlling my abilities to give great advice and not let people try to step over it. Nothing personal at all....just business. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

Please do not take offense to that either. It is not about that. I just wanted to mention that and everything is kewl. To the OP, I hope you are getting some great information and I want to apologize if what I say is confusing. I cannot help it. It is how I talk based on my engineering experience. I do try to simplify things the best I can so I hope at least some of it was understandable. And I have to say, thank you Duanebro for helping simplify it. Yes, the room makes problems, and the design as well as an eq will help you fix the issues. That is the main thing. I understand that some people just do not want to here the specifics, but I find it easier for those to understand it if they want to do things themselves. Just trying to help. I hope I did. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

I thank you for your reply. I take no offense. I will try to end this with a little bit of advice for Moble E. - the main reason I posted the first reply to your post is that I think people are going to skim over, or just not understand your post. I do not disagree with what you said. My reply was way to far the other way. I didn't give enough info.

I will not post about this again as I feel I am getting off topic.

Thank you for putting up with me,

Duane

 

[Moble Enclosurs 10+ year member]

I feel I need to respond as I think some of what I wrote wasn't written clearly.






I thank you for your reply. I take no offense. I will try to end this with a little bit of advice for Moble E. - the main reason I posted the first reply to your post is that I think people are going to skim over, or just not understand your post. I do not disagree with what you said. My reply was way to far the other way. I didn't give enough info.

I will not post about this again as I feel I am getting off topic.

Thank you for putting up with me,

Duane

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif Its kewl man. That is what a forum is for......people like us make it exciting! lol. I am glad we have so much to say about this because hopefully people will read it and learn from it or notice the options they do have. Its totally kewl man. I actually like your comments, they made me chuckle. lol

Sooo, as far as the OP is concerned, I hope you see that there is so much that can be looked at and that you have somewhat of an idea of what can be involved.

That being said, we are here if you have anymore questions, and hopefully it does not get too off topic (*cough cough Duanebro *cough lol)