If Christ is the answer, what was the question?

[shaneb 10+ year member]

Behe is outcast because he does not adhere to the rigors of science, it's methods or it's analysis.
Behe is a joke and most if not all of his claims have been disproven. His hypothesis' fail.

ID [creationism] is not and never will be science.

MMk, like I said, I'm too tired to think about it, I'm not a scientist, never will be. I know some of the arguments, not all of them. So I cannot Intensely argue with you about it.

But I will, if you would like, get a response to that tomorrow.

Well even if you don't like. I think I will.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

I don't claim that microevolution does not happen, i do not believe that macro evolution takes place.

One element of macroevolution is the compounding effects of microevolution.

So "believing" in one and not the other is a logical fallacy.

 

[shaneb 10+ year member]

The issue of the "church taking money for salvation" is what caused the catholic insurgency.

That is when the Protestant church began. When individuals realized that the bibile does not teach that.

Catholicism is where that began, Evangelical Christianity differs in MANY ways from Catholicism

 

[shaneb 10+ year member]

One element of macroevolution is the compounding effects of microevolution.
So "believing" in one and not the other is a logical fallacy.

You cannot get a motorcycle from a bicycle assembly line. It doesn't happen, the components aren't even there. And with that, Macroevolution takes much Larger bounds and leaps than that. when it isn't even possible on a basic level.

adaptation and evolution are two different things...

now stop making me think about this.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

MMk, like I said, I'm too tired to think about it, I'm not a scientist, never will be. I know some of the arguments, not all of them. So I cannot Intensely argue with you about it.But I will, if you would like, get a response to that tomorrow.

Well even if you don't like. I think I will.

If you want a "snapshot" of the failures of Behe, take a look @ the Dover case presented earlier. He was the "star" witness for the defense.

I haven't clicked the links provided earlier.....but PBS did a spectacular special on the case.

 

[shaneb 10+ year member]

it's like me against the forum...you guys are wearin' me out.

 

[Rashaddd 5,000+ posts]

No? That's what people don't get with Christianity, it's a do-less job, there are no "things" it takes to get salvation. It's free, by definition, grace is a gift that we don't deserve, and due to our sin, we do not deserve salvation, but we can have it, through faith, not works.

That is the whole point of the majority of Romans.

That is what Luther finally grasped, and what caused him to post his thesis on the door of that church, because that church was taking money for penance, when the bible does NOT teach that.

And you dont think with all of these branches and different interpretations and translations and beliefs about it etc, it ever might have changed slightly...you honestly dont think people along the way could've written out things they didn't like, or added things that they would've prefered to have been in there (even if they had good intentions, not necessarily trying to exploit people)?

 

[shaneb 10+ year member]

If you want a "snapshot" of the failures of Behe, take a look @ the Dover case presented earlier. He was the "star" witness for the defense.
I haven't clicked the links provided earlier.....but PBS did a spectacular special on the case.

I'll look into it!

 

[bad_trip 10+ year member]

Jesus works at a record store.

New family guy FTW!

 

[shaneb 10+ year member]

And you dont think with all of these branches and different interpretations and translations and beliefs about it etc, it ever might have changed slightly...you honestly dont think people along the way could've written out things they didn't like, or added things that they would've prefered to have been in there (even if they had good intentions, not necessarily trying to exploit people)

Well, that is a good thoughtful idea.

And this is where your not going to agree with me and think i'm ridiculous.

One - I don't know all these history facts off hand about the coming about of the "bible we see today"

Two - The bible states that it is the breathed word of God, so I trust that in the Council of Nicaea the correct books were added to make out bible we see today, and through faith i trust that it is the inerrant word of God.

 

[shaneb 10+ year member]

And you dont think with all of these branches and different interpretations and translations and beliefs about it etc, it ever might have changed slightly...you honestly dont think people along the way could've written out things they didn't like, or added things that they would've prefered to have been in there (even if they had good intentions, not necessarily trying to exploit people)?
Christianity has evolved since it was first instituted, whereas Islam and Judaism have only to a MUCH slighter effect. That's why you see so many Muslims and Jews who live literally straight by the original teachings and customs of The Torah and Quran, and are generally so much stricter to their teachings than Christians are.

Also, there are original documents in greek and hebrew of the bible, which you can find now in the Hebrew/Greek bibles.

Ihave a lot of friends at school that know Greek and Hebrew...i wish they were here, cause i am really fuzzy on this argument.

 

[Rashaddd 5,000+ posts]

Well, that is a good thoughtful idea.And this is where your not going to agree with me and think i'm ridiculous.

One - I don't know all these history facts off hand about the coming about of the "bible we see today"

Two - The bible states that it is the breathed word of God, so I trust that in the Council of Nicaea the correct books were added to make out bible we see today, and through faith i trust that it is the inerrant word of God.

Yes, that is where we will significantly disagree. You are trusting in the fact that it hasn't changed, rather than actually looking at it historically. Its really not a great state of mind, its almost as bad as if you never questioned our government and said well, the constitution was written and I can agree with that, so the government which is based on the constitution must be doing the right thing and be correct as well. That'd be pretty ignorant and naive wouldn't it?

Christianity has evolved since it was first instituted, whereas Islam and Judaism have only to a MUCH slighter effect. That's why you see so many Muslims and Jews who live literally straight by the original teachings and customs of The Torah and Quran, and are generally so much stricter to their teachings than Christians are.

btw i edited my other post and restated it here because i figured you'd missed it cuz you quoted me before I edited it originally if that makes sense lol...anyway...

 

[shaneb 10+ year member]

It's bed time, hopefully this thing doesn't "evolve" as quickly as it is, so i can try and answer some questions tomorrow.

Anyway guys, it's been fun.

PM your msn or yahoo messenger to carry on another timeeee....

Goodnight.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

You cannot get a motorcycle from a bicycle assembly line. It doesn't happen, the components aren't even there.

That's a flawed analogy on a fundamental level.

And with that, Macroevolution takes much Larger bounds and leaps than that.

Macroevolution isn't limited to compounding microevolution. But it is one "part" of the macroevolutionary tale.

While Wikipedia is not a definitive source, it's late & I really should be in bed right now...so;

"Within the Modern Synthesis school of thought, macroevolution is thought of as the compounded effects of microevolution. Thus, the distinction between micro- and macroevolution is not a fundamental one - the only difference between them is of time and scale."

"The term "macroevolution" frequently arises within the context of the evolution/creation debate, usually brandished by creationists alleging a significant difference between the evolutionary changes observed in field and laboratory studies and the larger scale macroevolutionary changes that scientists believe to have taken thousands or millions of years to occur............These arguments are rejected by mainstream science, which holds that there is ample evidence that macroevolution has occurred in the past.[6][7] The consensus of the scientific community is that the alleged micro-macro division is an artificial construct made by creationists and does not accurately reflect the actual processes of evolution.............While details of macroevolution are continuously studied by the scientific community, the overall theory behind macroevolution (i.e. common descent) has been overwhelmingly consistent with empirical data. Predictions of empirical data from the theory of common descent have been so consistent that biologists often refer to it as the "fact of evolution".[8][9]

 

[shaneb 10+ year member]

Yes, that is where we will significantly disagree. You are trusting in the fact that it hasn't changed, rather than actually looking at it historically. Its really not a great state of mind, its almost as bad as if you never questioned our government and said well, the constitution was written and I can agree with that, so the government which is based on the constitution must be doing the right thing and be correct as well. That'd be pretty ignorant and naive wouldn't it?
Christianity has evolved since it was first instituted, whereas Islam and Judaism have only to a MUCH slighter effect. That's why you see so many Muslims and Jews who live literally straight by the original teachings and customs of The Torah and Quran, and are generally so much stricter to their teachings than Christians are.

btw i edited my other post and restated it here because i figured you'd missed it cuz you quoted me before I edited it originally if that makes sense lol...anyway...

Okay, I have known them, I do not remember enough of it at the moment to creat a plausible argument, that is what I meant, I did not mean I am wakling blindly into this thing, Like I said, tomorrow is another day, ill get back to you, i have some brushing up to do on biblical origins, it's okay that I dont know it off the top of my head.