Hybrid Capactiros vs Capacitors

[dudadiesel]

Some information came from wikipedia, but I wanted to avoid citing that:

https://www.tecategroup.com/app_notes/0_Tecate_Group_What%20is%20an%20ultracapacitor.pdf

Basically, an ultra capacitor is a capacitor made with some battery materials / partially chemical. If you check that pdf, you can find a general comparisson of batteries, fuel cells, ultra capacitors and traditional capacitors on page 2. In summary, ultra capacitors are not as fast to discharge as traditional, which makes sense since they are a "hybrid technology" of batteries and capacitors. Somewhere I picked up that ultra capacitors are twice as slow in their discharge/recharge but that plot suggests much worse. Anyway, the point stands that they have higher capacities than traditional caps and are still faster than batteries so they have their benefits and trade-offs. Sounds to me close to the same as a power cell plus cap, if there's enough cap to run the amp's peaks anyway. Remember, it's about regulating voltage so that it won't drop too low when the demand suddenly hits the battery/alternator which aren't ready for that quick burst. More voltage = less amps for the same power = less heat generated = more efficiency and better sound (and less amps turning off from hitting max temps like back in my 12 hour a day pizza delivery days)

I didn't look much into the big ultra caps out there but I was finding ones already rated at 12-16v with high capacities. I assume they were many caps chained together in series. The more you put into series, the slower your discharge is going to be, so once you start chaining them together, you need to start putting these chains into parallel as well to make up for the loss.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

The thing is when you are running a thousand to several thousand watts, hitting a huge bass note, The capacitor will do pretty much nothing compared to the current draw its facing. So everything in short, its still a waste of money.

 

[dudadiesel]

When you're talking about someone who is slapping in a 1 or 2 farad capacitor who has a dimming lights problem, no doubt. Circuit City conned me into that back in the day. I then got a power cell and the problem was fixed and I felt it was running much better. I had almost just gone with 2 power cells and called it a day until my curiosity kicked in about a power cell and a capacitor working together which I don't think I had done before.

I'd have to really dig into it to find out how much you would need to accommodate the slow discharge of a battery and an alternator trying to catch up to those notes. The theory is that the cap is going to get drained but it's also going to charge right back up in between notes as well. Ultimately, it will simply dampen the magnitudes of the ups and downs of the overall voltage. We're probably talking about minor dips anyway. I'll put something in there since I planned to use my cap as my "distribution block" or I'll get another power cell and crank it hard, check how bad the voltage drops, and then decide if I want to throw in some of these caps to see if I can see any difference to help confirm that caps in general aren't worth it. I'm sure the difference is negligible unless you want to dump a ton of money.

 

[dudadiesel]

Just as an update, I picked up some 500 farad ultra capacitors. Although you lose a lot of speed in the charge/discharge going from traditional dielectric capacitors to ultra capacitors, the ultra capacitors are still much faster than a battery will be and the increased capacity should keep its voltage from dropping too quickly, giving the alternator enough time to respond to long-term demand and kick the charge back up. Logically speaking, I think this is the best way to keep a system at peak voltage (my amp is more than large enough to cover the system+ + car peak demand so this is really just to fill the gap between no charging and sudden need for charging from the amp) I also have the biggest kinetik power cell to act as the main battery so even if the cap still falls short, I know the power cells do their job from experience.

It would still be better to have the traditional cap running the system, but I would need so many just to make a difference that it obviously is not feasible. Hopefully one day they'll come across some really awesome super conductor plates (that don't need to be sub-freezing temperatures to work) and really really good but thin insulators to make some killer capacitors for this. But I don't think we'll see a market push for it. Other than car audio, the rest of the world economy is looking for longer lasting storage with high capacity which can recharge more quickly. I see caps being more oriented towards solar pv cell applications and even power plant applications where the discharge rate doesn't need to be so high, but they need something which can act quickly enough to compensate for sudden drops in production of power (or spikes in electrical use like when people start getting home) without the worry of an expensive battery system dying out in just a year. Caps should last a very long time, they are the future. One day.

 

[Shannan Cook]

Which brand did you purchase and from where? 

I am installing a 3600 watt rms system. I have an xs d3400 battery and an Ohio generator alternator (325amps) and I already upgraded the big 3. I was looking into a hybrid capacitor, but stumbled upon ultra capacitors and then this post. 

What have your results been with the ultra caps? 

Reviews??? 

Thanks!

 

[L1ttlet]

Which brand did you purchase and from where? 

I am installing a 3600 watt rms system. I have an xs d3400 battery and an Ohio generator alternator (325amps) and I already upgraded the big 3. I was looking into a hybrid capacitor, but stumbled upon ultra capacitors and then this post. 

What have your results been with the ultra caps? 

Reviews??? 

Thanks!

I have about the same setup as u minus the h/0 alternator.  Have a xs d3400 and uping my system from 3k rms to around 4k-5k rms. Does the alternator keep ur voltage in check?

 

[L1ttlet]

I see everyone talking about agm and ultra caps, but wouldn't  lithium iron phosphate or lithium titanate  power banks be the best options as they can discharge and charge rapidly and maintain voltage? 

 

[Shannan Cook]

I have about the same setup as u minus the h/0 alternator.  Have a xs d3400 and uping my system from 3k rms to around 4k-5k rms. Does the alternator keep ur voltage in check?

It does up front, but I noticed when I push the system hard, the voltage drops in the rear. Luckily I installed fused distribution blocks and the fuse popped before any equipment blew. 

 

[Shannan Cook]

I see everyone talking about agm and ultra caps, but wouldn't  lithium iron phosphate or lithium titanate  power banks be the best options as they can discharge and charge rapidly and maintain voltage? 

I don’t know much about that. I know the basics. Not much beyond wiring, installing and testing tones for gain and setting on the amps. 

 

[maligoing]

Guys, so what do you recommend in the end? Should you use regular, hybrid or not use at all? I recently bought a new car, but I am not completely satisfied with the sound in it, so I decided to replace it, but unfortunately I almost don't understand anything about it. Do you think you should try it yourself or is it better to turn to a professional and not bother about capacitors and other crap? Although I even already found some capacitors (I don’t know if they fit), diodes (https://www.hv-caps.com/High_Voltage_Diode/2019/1212/3343.html), as well as a radio tape recorder with amplifiers (a gift from a good friend ). I would really appreciate any advice from you. Thanks in advance!

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Guys, so what do you recommend in the end? Should you use regular, hybrid or not use at all? I recently bought a new car, but I am not completely satisfied with the sound in it, so I decided to replace it, but unfortunately I almost don't understand anything about it. Do you think you should try it yourself or is it better to turn to a professional and not bother about capacitors and other crap? Although I even already found some capacitors (I don’t know if they fit), diodes, as well as a radio tape recorder with amplifiers (a gift from a good friend ). I would really appreciate any advice from you. Thanks in advance!

Stay the **** away from capacitors unless its a maxwell ultra capacitor bank which but thats for serious competitors with an upgraded alternator.

Big 3 upgrade, upgrade your battery to an AGM or add a 2nd battery closer to the sub amp or get a high output alt. The piece of **** 1, 10, 100 farad capacitors you see is complete and utter trash that does not create any power nor store enough power to do jack ****.

If you actually read the thread you would already understood what the consensus is...

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Guys, so what do you recommend in the end? Should you use regular, hybrid or not use at all? I recently bought a new car, but I am not completely satisfied with the sound in it, so I decided to replace it, but unfortunately I almost don't understand anything about it. Do you think you should try it yourself or is it better to turn to a professional and not bother about capacitors and other crap? Although I even already found some capacitors (I don’t know if they fit), diodes, as well as a radio tape recorder with amplifiers (a gift from a good friend ). I would really appreciate any advice from you. Thanks in advance!

If you have to ask about capacitors you definitely should not even consider using any kind. The guys who will get benefit from the super-caps know who they are and they're people with several thousand dollars into install and equipment.

Your stock electrical with upgraded cable from - battery terminal to chassis should be adequate up to 1200-1500W worth of modern class D amplifiers. If you plan to go bigger than that, plan to spend at least what you're spending on amplifiers on electrical upgrades to feed them and the vast majority of the time you'll have better options than any sort of capacitor.

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

There is where my Stinger 10 Farad Hybrid cap sits. Since my Jeep Grand Cherokee I haven't used it. I only used it in the Jeep to suppress noise, which it did.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

There is where my Stinger 10 Farad Hybrid cap sits. Since my Jeep Grand Cherokee I haven't used it. I only used it in the Jeep to suppress noise, which it did.

yup thats the only good use for those kinds of caps. noise filtering works amazing.