MisterGrubbs
5,000+ posts
Kinda Old School
Interesting cars, those G8's are. 6.0 baby
Sundown 1000D, RD 1000.1 are both GREAT options. Efficient amps, clean amps for class D.
Sundown 1000D, RD 1000.1 are both GREAT options. Efficient amps, clean amps for class D.
do you still have those 2 db-500 in your sig? i have one for sale if you're ever interested and want another.
anyway, i have a kicker zx1000.1, and id say it runs really good on 2 ohms, they do run rather warm most of the time, but ive been using it daily and never had it shutdown ever, and it only takes about 100 amps of current or so.
about the battery in the back, if youre gonna run 1000w, i would suggest going ahead and doing the big 3 and upgrading the power/ground on the batt as well, but youre still gonna have to run a fused power wire from the alt to the battery in back.
anyway, i have a kicker zx1000.1, and id say it runs really good on 2 ohms, they do run rather warm most of the time, but ive been using it daily and never had it shutdown ever, and it only takes about 100 amps of current or so.
about the battery in the back, if youre gonna run 1000w, i would suggest going ahead and doing the big 3 and upgrading the power/ground on the batt as well, but youre still gonna have to run a fused power wire from the alt to the battery in back.
CarAudioGuru
10+ year member
Member
All amplifiers that can "swing" 32 V Ac out at speaker leads into a 1 ohm load are 1000 watt amplifiers . Class A, Class A/B, Class D whatever,
Volts is volts -which is power. PERIOD.
Class D's will be 30% more efficient than a Class A/B (but sound different)
Therefore the formula for current draw is:
Total Power X 2 divided by DC volts.
1000 watts RMS X 2 /12 (since no one has measured said amp at the 32 volts out at the DC power input terminal - we'll go with 12 Volts DC)
Equals = 166 Amps of current draw (full power)
Assuming Class D amp - then take that number times .7 which equals= 116.6 amps for power current draw.
That means any Class D amplifier that can "swing 32 volts AC into a 1 ohm load will draw about (with in 5%) of the 116 amps of current draw.
ANY amplifier. Mine, theirs, yours. PERIOD.
Its "Physics" (not my fault)
So...NO 1000 watt amplifier is going to be a whole lot more OR less efficient (assuming it REALLY is 1000 watts RMS, or more importantly swings 32 volts into a 1 ohm load) than any other 1000 watt amplifier.
They'll be the same.
1000 watts is a 1000 watts at 12 volts input and connected to a 1 ohm load (or 4 0hm or 8 Ohm or whatever).
Volts is volts -which is power. PERIOD.
Class D's will be 30% more efficient than a Class A/B (but sound different)
Therefore the formula for current draw is:
Total Power X 2 divided by DC volts.
1000 watts RMS X 2 /12 (since no one has measured said amp at the 32 volts out at the DC power input terminal - we'll go with 12 Volts DC)
Equals = 166 Amps of current draw (full power)
Assuming Class D amp - then take that number times .7 which equals= 116.6 amps for power current draw.
That means any Class D amplifier that can "swing 32 volts AC into a 1 ohm load will draw about (with in 5%) of the 116 amps of current draw.
ANY amplifier. Mine, theirs, yours. PERIOD.
Its "Physics" (not my fault)
So...NO 1000 watt amplifier is going to be a whole lot more OR less efficient (assuming it REALLY is 1000 watts RMS, or more importantly swings 32 volts into a 1 ohm load) than any other 1000 watt amplifier.
They'll be the same.
1000 watts is a 1000 watts at 12 volts input and connected to a 1 ohm load (or 4 0hm or 8 Ohm or whatever).
Buck
5,000+ posts
little alien on campus
DD m1a is rated at 1200w.
Ygpm
helotaxi
5,000+ posts
Kilroy was Here
Where in the heck did you get that? Only reason that I ask is that it's completely false.
Again, what? Again, totally wrong.
You really don't have a clue. The screen-name is a joke, right?
Nothing above is physics as realized on this planet. Your fault.
There are major differences between different amplifier designs when it comes to efficiency. Amplifier topology plays the biggest difference but the design of the power supply plays a big role as well. For example the JL Slash amps are Class D amps but are some of the least efficient examples (more than 10% less efficient than an "average" Class D amp of the same power) because of their regulated power supplies. Along the same lines, the PG Xenon amps made the same power into any load between 1 and 4 ohms but were significantly less efficient into a lower impedance.
CarAudioGuru
10+ year member
Member
Yes, I said that!! 30%. Class A/B hooked to a speaker is about 50% Class D's are 75-80%. Hooked to a speaker , not a test load.
Trust me , the formula works and is VERY accurate. I have trained over 100,000 people all over the world and personally tested over 5,000 amplifiers in the last 30 yrs. in cars and on benches.
My 1000 watt Class D is no more (OR Less) efficient than anyone else's 1000 watt Class D.
That is the gist of the comment I made. Nothing more, nothing less.
Trust me , the formula works and is VERY accurate. I have trained over 100,000 people all over the world and personally tested over 5,000 amplifiers in the last 30 yrs. in cars and on benches.
My 1000 watt Class D is no more (OR Less) efficient than anyone else's 1000 watt Class D.
That is the gist of the comment I made. Nothing more, nothing less.
CarAudioGuru
10+ year member
Member
And 5-10% more or less efficiency is not going to make a BIG difference.
The formulas are Ohms law done in a simple way.
For training purposes.
If YOU take a 1000 watt RMS amplifier -Class D (@ 2 ohms) and with 12 volts in - it will draw how much current??? Based on any formulas???
Assuming reality, because you have tested many 1000 watt Class D amplifier into a 2 ohm (or 1 ohm) load - in car. Or bench for that matter . And the current draw is?????
And , Oh by the way, I was the guy who developed/designed the Phoenix Gold.
MS/MPS/M and ZX series of amplifiers, and all the signal processors, Frank Amp N Stein, Reactor, Route 66, etc.
PG from 1989-2000. I was the founder of the electronics division.
The formulas are Ohms law done in a simple way.
For training purposes.
If YOU take a 1000 watt RMS amplifier -Class D (@ 2 ohms) and with 12 volts in - it will draw how much current??? Based on any formulas???
Assuming reality, because you have tested many 1000 watt Class D amplifier into a 2 ohm (or 1 ohm) load - in car. Or bench for that matter . And the current draw is?????
And , Oh by the way, I was the guy who developed/designed the Phoenix Gold.
MS/MPS/M and ZX series of amplifiers, and all the signal processors, Frank Amp N Stein, Reactor, Route 66, etc.
PG from 1989-2000. I was the founder of the electronics division.
helotaxi
5,000+ posts
Kilroy was Here
Your "formula" works (very roughly) only by sheer luck and only at approximately 70% efficiency. I'd like you to explain how it has any basis in Ohm's Law.
I come up with 119A at 12V and 70% efficiency using the actual formula. The problem with your method is that it simply doesn't apply the concept of efficiency correctly. You're multiplying by the efficiency once you have a current number based on 50% efficiency. By your method, current draw will decrease as efficiency decreases...that fits how? By your method current draw at 60% efficiency would be 100A. The correct answer would be 139A. That's not even close.
That is also an almost 20A difference in max current draw between 60 and 70% efficiency. That's a pretty big difference. I realize that it won't make that much difference under normal use, but it's still hardly insignificant.
Your team made some great amps, I have a few myself, but that doesn't erase the fact that your logic is flawed.
edit: and me personally, I don't really care how much current it might draw on the bench cause I don't listen to the amp there, nor do I have a use for 1000W. Efficiency still matters because under any conditions, more efficient means less current regardless of power level or whether we're talking on the bench or in the car.
I come up with 119A at 12V and 70% efficiency using the actual formula. The problem with your method is that it simply doesn't apply the concept of efficiency correctly. You're multiplying by the efficiency once you have a current number based on 50% efficiency. By your method, current draw will decrease as efficiency decreases...that fits how? By your method current draw at 60% efficiency would be 100A. The correct answer would be 139A. That's not even close.
That is also an almost 20A difference in max current draw between 60 and 70% efficiency. That's a pretty big difference. I realize that it won't make that much difference under normal use, but it's still hardly insignificant.
Your team made some great amps, I have a few myself, but that doesn't erase the fact that your logic is flawed.
edit: and me personally, I don't really care how much current it might draw on the bench cause I don't listen to the amp there, nor do I have a use for 1000W. Efficiency still matters because under any conditions, more efficient means less current regardless of power level or whether we're talking on the bench or in the car.
CarAudioGuru
10+ year member
Member
I'm with you - testing amplifiers on a bench is BS! Had that fight a MILLION times with my engineers at PG.
Speakers are NOT load resistors, like on a test bench. Music does not have Sine waves in it, like how amplifiers are tested.
So the only real way is in a car playing your music and testing it LIVE, with a good scope and voltmeter AND RTA (which I just happen to carry with me on all my trips out into the field with Audison/Hertz -that I do about 2 weeks out of the month).
Then when you change to a different amplifier you have a real "base" to look at and see what is going on. If my amp swings 32 volts into your speakers and your amp swings 32 volts into into the same speakers they make the same power.
And theoretically there should be very little difference in current draw assuming they both are Class D amplifiers. Correct?
My formulas came about because teaching installers this stuff was TOUGH.
And they all think its magic anyway, so I try to take the magic out.
Give them simple formulas so they can see what gauge wire thy should use, fusing, alternator/battery upgrade, etc.
That it isn't exactly perfect. I agree. But in REAL WORLD, very close.
Its way better than the MAGIC they think is happening now (go on the other amplifier thread here about some amplifier swinging 130 volts out!! Into a 0.5 ohm load? Check that one out!!!)
Reality is a mother, for sure. I deal with real world testing.
Not JUST theory. Shit I've tested for REAL.
Speakers are NOT load resistors, like on a test bench. Music does not have Sine waves in it, like how amplifiers are tested.
So the only real way is in a car playing your music and testing it LIVE, with a good scope and voltmeter AND RTA (which I just happen to carry with me on all my trips out into the field with Audison/Hertz -that I do about 2 weeks out of the month).
Then when you change to a different amplifier you have a real "base" to look at and see what is going on. If my amp swings 32 volts into your speakers and your amp swings 32 volts into into the same speakers they make the same power.
And theoretically there should be very little difference in current draw assuming they both are Class D amplifiers. Correct?
My formulas came about because teaching installers this stuff was TOUGH.
And they all think its magic anyway, so I try to take the magic out.
Give them simple formulas so they can see what gauge wire thy should use, fusing, alternator/battery upgrade, etc.
That it isn't exactly perfect. I agree. But in REAL WORLD, very close.
Its way better than the MAGIC they think is happening now (go on the other amplifier thread here about some amplifier swinging 130 volts out!! Into a 0.5 ohm load? Check that one out!!!)
Reality is a mother, for sure. I deal with real world testing.
Not JUST theory. Shit I've tested for REAL.
CarAudioGuru
10+ year member
Member
And IF you listen to REAL music (not "Bass That Ate The Earth" type) then current draw is really 10-20 dB down with reference to FULL power current draw.
So IF you listen to REAL music than the current draw of that 1000 W Class D amplifier is really on an average of 11-16 amps. No sweat for any normal cars electrical system. Assuming that the "crest factor" of the person turning the knob does not exceed the 10 dB number.
But from what I see here on this forum, my guess is these guys DON'T listen to REAL music (Fleetwood Mac, Doors, Sade, Pink Floyd, etc)//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif
They want it to POUND!! Therefore the current draw formulas I gave are pretty close to reality. For ball park stuff that hasn't been measured.
A GOOD place to at least to"start". Better than throwing darts or Ouija Board stuff.
As they say "Close enough for government work!!":laugh:
So IF you listen to REAL music than the current draw of that 1000 W Class D amplifier is really on an average of 11-16 amps. No sweat for any normal cars electrical system. Assuming that the "crest factor" of the person turning the knob does not exceed the 10 dB number.
But from what I see here on this forum, my guess is these guys DON'T listen to REAL music (Fleetwood Mac, Doors, Sade, Pink Floyd, etc)//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif
They want it to POUND!! Therefore the current draw formulas I gave are pretty close to reality. For ball park stuff that hasn't been measured.
A GOOD place to at least to"start". Better than throwing darts or Ouija Board stuff.
As they say "Close enough for government work!!":laugh:
- Thread Starter
- #14
So with all of that said, any amp suggestions? I'm open to ideas as of now. I know about most of the more common stuff and previous "flavor of the month" equipment from the boards, but it has been a while since I was in the market.
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