gun control?

[Buffalohed 10+ year member]

OK Gunman had a gun that held ten bullets, he used one on the prof, and one on the first student. Im number ten in line. Guy beside me has a gun, draws, fires, misses and gets shot dead. The gunman has used three shots, but now has another gun with 9 more bullets in it. Before he would have ran out of bullets before he got to me, now he has more ammo and Im now ****ed.
You see this is all hear say. Hypothetical situations dont really prove anything. They stimulate conversation but thats really it. Honestly in your above situation, I wanna be number two in line, cause as soon as that guy pulls his gun and has it trained on that first guy, Im going for his arm. I may get shot in the end, I may break his arm and get his gun, but either way I am not setting him up to shoot more people than he could before.

Your anecdotal examples are horrible. I'm not sure that I want to enter into this argument because you just keep on going, but the truth of the matter is that someone having a gun could have prevented it, whereas noone having a gun could not and did not prevent it. You can make up situations from here to eternity but statistics and logic will make you look like an idiot each time. The statistics being that there is a chance it could have been stopped, a chance higher than the 1/10000000000 chance that his gun would misfire and kill him before he could kill anyone. The logic being that people with guns are better equipped to protect themselves from other people with guns than unarmed people.

Arguing either of those points directly is a testament to how weak your argument is. You may have a good point, but it isn't in this matter. And you are not stimulating conversation, you are arguing just for the sake of it.

 

[faulkton 5,000+ posts]

All you people saying that gun control wouldn't have stopped this are retarded. He legally bought his guns.... they were NOT guns from the criminal underworld.

So if he couldn't have bought those guns (ie because of gun control), he wouldn't have been able to kill those students with them.

 

[Buffalohed 10+ year member]

Is that number of guns per homes or over all number of guns? Im just asking because I dont want to say anything about that statement without understanding it completly and knowing the numbers. As for your last question, why do I care, Im Canadian. I am still concerned for human life regardless of where it is. I am of the opinion that more guns does not help preserve life. I understand the argument that says more guns helps preserve life, I just dont agree with it.

Here you are using a version of the Straw Man argument, that is, your argument is fallacious.

You are attempting to simplify the argument into the statement "more guns helps preserve life" because that makes it easier for you to disagree with it.

Unfortunately, the discussion is not that simple, and the viewpoint cannot be trimmed down to "more guns help preserve life" so that you can conveniently say you don't buy it.

 

[Buffalohed 10+ year member]

All you people saying that gun control wouldn't have stopped this are retarded. He legally bought his guns.... they were NOT guns from the criminal underworld.
So if he couldn't have bought those guns (ie because of gun control), he wouldn't have been able to kill those students with them.

You are absolutely right. He would not have been able to kill those students with those guns because he would not have owned those guns.

Instead, he would have gotten guns from somewhere else, and killed them with that.

Remove that "with them" at the end of your post and it becomes completely false.

Incredible.

 

[ravendarat 10+ year member]

Here you are using a version of the Straw Man argument, that is, your argument is fallacious.
You are attempting to simplify the argument into the statement "more guns helps preserve life" because that makes it easier for you to disagree with it.

Unfortunately, the discussion is not that simple, and the viewpoint cannot be trimmed down to "more guns help preserve life" so that you can conveniently say you don't buy it.

Of course it isnt just this simple, but I didnt feel I needed to do a lengthy one page recap of what the arguments were, for and against, on the issue, which is why I "dumbed it down" to just that simple sentence. We have 17 pages for people that want to get both entire sides of the story. I guess I cant depend on people to actually read the thread to get an idea of everything being said. All I was trying to say is that I understood the point of view that you are defending, but in the hypothetical situations that were being presented, I didnt agree with them because they were drawning simple conclusions without taking all factors into acount. And as I said we can go back and forth on "hypothetical situations" all day but at the end of the day they dont prove anything

 

[faulkton 5,000+ posts]

You are absolutely right. He would not have been able to kill those students with those guns because he would not have owned those guns.
Instead, he would have gotten guns from somewhere else, and killed them with that.

Remove that "with them" at the end of your post and it becomes completely false.

Incredible.

You can sit here and speculate about what might have happened, like some renowned psychic who sees the future, but i live here in reality.

The fact is, if wouldn't have been able to just walk in there (not even being a citizen of the US) and buy a gun, he wouldn't have been able to shoot all the innocent students with said gun.

If you are against gun control, you have the blood of the poor students upon your hands and heart.

 

[ravendarat 10+ year member]

You are absolutely right. He would not have been able to kill those students with those guns because he would not have owned those guns.
Instead, he would have gotten guns from somewhere else, and killed them with that.

Remove that "with them" at the end of your post and it becomes completely false.

Incredible.

Or mabye instead of going out and trying to get guns illegally, the crazy bastard just hangs himself, or he picks up a knife and trys to use that, which would probally have yeilded alot less deaths. You dont know that this guy knew how to get guns illegally

 

[faulkton 5,000+ posts]

I want to protect innocent American children from being brutally killed at the hands of foreign nationals.. It deeply saddens me that you want our children to die.

 

[faulkton 5,000+ posts]

buffalohed is probably the bleeding heart type that wants us to give up and lose the war on terror.

Thankfully there are people like me who stand up for what they believe in, the true conservative agenda.

 

[WhoSayWho? 5,000+ posts]

All you people saying that gun control wouldn't have stopped this are retarded. He legally bought his guns.... they were NOT guns from the criminal underworld.
So if he couldn't have bought those guns (ie because of gun control), he wouldn't have been able to kill those students with them.

But he would have been able to kill them, with or without guns. He was Asian.

 

[faulkton 5,000+ posts]

But he would have been able to kill them, with or without guns. He was Asian.

Another reason we need a wall around our borders.

 

[JonMR2turbo 10+ year member]

You can sit here and speculate about what might have happened, like some renowned psychic who sees the future, but i live here in reality.
The fact is, if wouldn't have been able to just walk in there (not even being a citizen of the US) and buy a gun, he wouldn't have been able to shoot all the innocent students with said gun.

If you are against gun control, you have the blood of the poor students upon your hands and heart.

You are completely clueless. He bought the gun illegally. He lied on the form you have to fill out when buying a gun that asks if you have a diagnosed mental disorder.

And it is obvious you have never shot a gun yet alone seen one in real life. Guns do not cause crime. Do you really think this guy was going to wake up and think "gee, I really want to go on killing rampage today, but I don't have a gun so I guess I just won't do it"? If guns had never existed, he would have found another way to kill those people, perhaps with a bomb or some sort of homemade poisonous gas.

And you are still ignoring the original article I posted about the armed citizen that stopped another school shooting in 2002.

 

[Buffalohed 10+ year member]

I thought it was useless to argue with the people on this board. I was wrong.

It is beyond useless. Like JonMR2turbo said... faulkton you are utterly ****ing clueless.

ravendarat, you are not clueless, but you have a very distorted perspective on using statistics, probabilities, and single case generalizations in an argument, and that makes it near impossible to argue with you because you can't argue against fallacies aside from pointing them out.

 

[JonMR2turbo 10+ year member]

Many sports cars arent allowed on a race track as they are designed for use on public roads and not on race tracks. Either way, trying defend yourself by simply redirecting the conversasion to a different topic is a sign of weekness in a debate.

Then you obviously aren't a car enthusiast because anyone can take a car to any track and race it.

I'm redirecting the conversation, I'm using what is known as a "metaphor" to show you how rediculous your logic is because you are too blinded by your fear of guns to think clearly.

And we both live in relatively free countries, where people do not need reasons to own things they can afford. It's as simple as that.

Can you give some solid reasons as to why people shouldn't be allowed to own full auto rifles?

 

[Buffalohed 10+ year member]

You can sit here and speculate about what might have happened, like some renowned psychic who sees the future, but i live here in reality.
The fact is, if wouldn't have been able to just walk in there (not even being a citizen of the US) and buy a gun, he wouldn't have been able to shoot all the innocent students with said gun.

If you are against gun control, you have the blood of the poor students upon your hands and heart.

I'm not speculating about shit.

There are a million different ways he could have gotten a gun. He could have walked into any one of those places and gotten one legally or illegally, it wouldn't have made a **** bit of difference.

You also don't know how to read. I already said you were right, he wouldn't have been able to use a gun he didn't have to shoot people. He would have used a different one that he did have.

Best to just leave discussions like these to grown-ups.