Going Active --- $275 to spend on Mids and Tweets (Image Dynamics vs. HAT vs. CDT?)

[hari-bhari 10+ year member]

ah i see, well honestly I'm looking for something that sounds good IB

 

[supermaxx123 10+ year member]

Dampen and seal your doors as best you can. Any speaker you get will benefit from it

 

[hari-bhari 10+ year member]

Ive done that actually, full treatment. Just looking for something that will sound good IB so I don't have to build enclosures

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

Ive done that actually, full treatment. Just looking for something that will sound good IB so I don't have to build enclosures

your not going to get a good deal of output..

your going to have to cross the midbass at around 100hz..

not only that most of those drivers with a low fs and low Qes are absolutely horrible Canadits for any car audio midbass/range..

few drivers like cdt es6 focal pk2 and helix drivers are built for such an app..

the ideal mid for 150 per driver which us what you need to keep up with a pair if 12s and 1200 watts..

qe around .5 to .65.

fs close to xover point no lower that 65hz..

alot of linear throw.. at least 8mm xmax

a very well damped and sealed door..

a very stiff cone that doesn't breakup below 2500hz..

sadly there's not a driver on the market that meets these parameters..

 

[ricebowl 10+ year member]

your not going to get a good deal of output..your going to have to cross the midbass at around 100hz..

not only that most of those drivers with a low fs and low Qes are absolutely horrible Canadits for any car audio midbass/range..

few drivers like cdt es6 focal pk2 and helix drivers are built for such an app..

the ideal mid for 150 per driver which us what you need to keep up with a pair if 12s and 1200 watts..

qe around .5 to .65.

fs close to xover point no lower that 65hz..

alot of linear throw.. at least 8mm xmax

a very well damped and sealed door..

a very stiff cone that doesn't breakup below 2500hz..

sadly there's not a driver on the market that meets these parameters..

Uhhh... False on most accounts.

QTS doesn't matter when you're crossing over far higher than Fs. No need for a high Fs. No absolute NEED for 8mm xmax.

 

[RAM_Designs 5,000+ posts]

Hearing the RS180s IB in a door panel versus sealed in a mustang Shaker 500 location, I must say that I prefer them sealed for midbass response. IB, the RS180s were easily trumped in performance by the ID OEM drivers from many moons ago.

Agreed, I have used both of them as well.

 

[dontbeaprix 10+ year member]

my morels beat the crap out of my doors and create very good midbass and they run down to 50 hz. I actually thought about running them active, but i'm not shure how much they would benefit from it. They are also a short throw woofer, but you can feel the midbass very well.

 

[RAM_Designs 5,000+ posts]

For my truck there's ample room ON the door for an enclosure.

Are those the Silver Flute mids? I'm using some right now.

 

[dontbeaprix 10+ year member]

This is how mine are set up.

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

Uhhh... False on most accounts.
QTS doesn't matter when you're crossing over far higher than Fs. No need for a high Fs. No absolute NEED for 8mm xmax.

o really? to much dampening kills lowend extension in IB..

too low a fs kills efficiency in the desired bandwidth.

and any driver with 150 watts rms will sound terrible simply because you depend highly on linear throw in any IB install..

higher xmax generally means lower crossover points..

a low qe makes for 1 a peaky driver around fs or 2 limited lowend extention..

 

[ricebowl 10+ year member]

Yes, really.

By your assertions, nearly no one is getting decent to good midbass out of their door mounted 6.5" woofers.

Secondly, go ahead and model up some speakers and see just how much power is required to take them beyond xmax IB at round 60-80hz (hint: not much). Efficiency is overrated for this application.

Thirdly, Qes by itself matters not. Total Q, Qts, may be.

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

how much power the drivers get?

I doubt they get above 110 db if you cross them @ 60hz..

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

Yes, really.
By your assertions, nearly no one is getting decent to good midbass out of their door mounted 6.5" woofers.

Secondly, go ahead and model up some speakers and see just how much power is required to take them beyond xmax IB at round 60-80hz (hint: not much). Efficiency is overrated for this application.

Thirdly, Qes by itself matters not. Total Q, Qts, may be.

you even know what Qes is?

QTS is before losses freeair..

I guarantee you not a single companies 6.5 midbass/range can put up 135db IB to keep up with 90% of the substages they at paired width..

efficiency no as in 1watt/1meter I'm talking about bandwidth efficiency and system efficiency..

I don't need to model anything up I've used more mids than most people know miss that exist..

most doors are over 1 cube over 4x the woofers vas.. a over damped electrical and underdamped mechanical driver isn't going to proform great IB..

anyone with experience will tell you that..

 

[subzero 5,000+ posts]

mine are crossed at 125 on a 6db slope. get loud

The lower I cross them, the less power I can use before they sound horible.

I you can get a decent chamber around the mid, and test on full range moderate volume, manipulate the chamber till it get louder and cleaner on the same power, then you mid be able to start playin with the xover point to get added volume out of them.

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

excellent driver that despite is higher fs has excellent midbass..

http://www.focal-america.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/165KRX2_SPec.pdf