FI Q in a Phase Box.

[Toxic Tuan 10+ year member]

Here we go again...

We design and build over 30 types of enclosures. Ok...let me waste all of my time to satisfy you guys by posting results...right? How about I build a side-loaded CRX box with huge outs and post some numbers in a Ford Explorer. Now...for another vehicle...I'll build a 4th order bandpass in a BMW convertible. Of course...the output will be tremendouly lower and a much lower number on the meter. Are both of those results going to be fair?

Do we promise that the boxes are going to hit a certain SPL number when we design or build the boxes? The answer is NO !!!

Do you go to a car audio shop and ask for a RTA graph and SPL number when you want a custom enclosure? NO.

Do you ask subwoofer/amplifier companies to post SPL numbers or RTA graphs before buying their products? NO.

Then why do we have to post results?

"Why do I mention that I won the World Finals?" The answer: Last year...many people on the forums challenged our box design asking for proof just like this. They stated the same d.amn thing..."sure you can build a box" but it can't do squat at the competition level. Here are pure results: World Champion!!!!! Does that prove a point? YES!

Our reputation of consistently designing and building good enclosures will sell itself. If our reputation means NOTHING to you...then DON'T buy our designs or our boxes.

Thank you.

Tuan

 

[danteBirosel 5,000+ posts]

Well Said Tuan. Well Said. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

dB

 

[tommyk90 5,000+ posts]

Here we go again...
We design and build over 30 types of enclosures. Ok...let me waste all of my time to satisfy you guys by posting results...right? How about I build a side-loaded CRX box with huge outs and post some numbers in a Ford Explorer. Now...for another vehicle...I'll build a 4th order bandpass in a BMW convertible. Of course...the output will be tremendouly lower and a much lower number on the meter. Are both of those results going to be fair?

Do we promise that the boxes are going to hit a certain SPL number when we design or build the boxes? The answer is NO !!!

Do you go to a car audio shop and ask for a RTA graph and SPL number when you want a custom enclosure? NO.

Do you ask subwoofer/amplifier companies to post SPL numbers or RTA graphs before buying their products? NO.

Then why do we have to post results?

"Why do I mention that I won the World Finals?" The answer: Last year...many people on the forums challenged our box design asking for proof just like this. They stated the same d.amn thing..."sure you can build a box" but it can't do squat at the competition level. Here are pure results: World Champion!!!!! Does that prove a point? YES!

Our reputation of consistently designing and building good enclosures will sell itself. If our reputation means NOTHING to you...then DON'T buy our designs or our boxes.

Thank you.

Tuan

I don't see how building a CRX fart box proves that your crazy box designs work. I saw your box at db drag finals, and it has absolutely nothing to do with a phase box or t-line or anything.

If you wanted to prove to the disbelievers that these boxes performed, you would have used THOSE DESIGNS instead of a "CRX style" sub forward and port back box that nearly every Street A guy had at finals.

Once again, posting that you won db drag finals has absolutely no relevance to the performance of THESE designs (the designs you are trying to SELL) in the least bit.

I think its just better off that you go back to ROE where people will believe your claims with open arms. People are a little more hostile here. Nowadays, people expect to see results posted because its almost a staple these days to do that. When people build new boxes, everyone wants to see how they perform. This involves, among other things, SPL numbers. It's just how it goes.

If you don't want to post results, then get ready to be criticized.

 

[Toxic Tuan 10+ year member]

I don't see how building a CRX fart box proves that your crazy box designs work. I saw your box at db drag finals, and it has absolutely nothing to do with a phase box or t-line or anything.
If you wanted to prove that these boxes performed, you would have used THOSE DESIGNS instead of a "CRX style" sub forward and port back box.

Once again, posting that you won db drag finals has absolutely no relevance to the performance of these designs in the least bit.

That's funny...TCAB builds a large amount of Side Loaded CRX boxes for their customers. Would you say they are "FART" boxes too? Absolutely NOT.

CRX Boxes have been proven to work incredible in any daily system. This is because of the subwoofer loading and vehicle cabin loading to fully develop waves in the desired areas. In some vehicles side loading the subwoofers will gain quite a bit over firing the sub up. I sure hope you know this.

Secondly, posting that I won world finals proved a point from last year's challenge, and perhaps our reputation in the car audio industry.

Third, you might have seen my box at world finals...since I showed it to everyone and not hide my boxes like some other competitors. However...can you duplicate that box?...the answer is probably not. There are more than meets the eye and certainly there are things inside that box that you do not see.

Tuan

 

[tommyk90 5,000+ posts]

That's funny...TCAB builds a large amount of Side Loaded CRX boxes for their customers. Would you say they are "FART" boxes too? Absolutely NOT.
CRX Boxes have been proven to work incredible in any daily system. This is because of the subwoofer loading and vehicle cabin loading to fully develop waves in the desired areas. In some vehicles side loading the subwoofers will gain quite a bit over firing the sub up. I sure hope you know this.

Secondly, posting that I won world finals proved a point from last year's challenge, and perhaps our reputation in the car audio industry.

Third, you might have seen my box at world finals...since I showed it to everyone and not hide my boxes like some other competitors. However...can you duplicate that box?...the answer is probably not. There are more than meets the eye and certainly there are things inside that box that you do not see.

Tuan

And do you think TCAB is any better? I sure don't. Both you and TCAB are counting on the inexperienced for business. People want the most bang for their buck, and most of the time the usual box layouts just don't cut it for these people. They need something more car and sub specific.

The one thing that separates TCAB from you is that they POST RESULTS OF PERFORMANCE.

I don't think you proved a point in the least bit. If you wanted to prove that your designs are somehow superior to everyone elses, you would have used them to win finals.

I'm sure there is stuff going on inside that box. My competition box(es) are the same way. But to say that your box is somehow superior to everyone elses is just crazy. There are many, MANY things that could have led to a higher score for yourself. Stronger subs, more powerful battery (The DD battery perhaps?), more efficient amps, the interior of your car. Hell, some CRX's are just naturally louder than others. It's not like you completely decimated everyone in your class, you won by .5. Now while .5 is a good amount in the SPL world, it is no way a complete domination and showing of superior box building skills.

Do you disagree with any of this?

I'm not trying to disprove you in the least, i'm just trying to say that a good majority of people want to see PHYSICAL evidence of a boxes performance. Little video clips of uneducated people "guessing" at what you have isn't exactly the most reassuring stuff out there. Especially when p4s did the same exact stuff.

If people want SPL numbers before buying a box from you, wouldn't you want to post some in order to get some more potential customers?

You don't have to prove anything from me because I have no intentions of becoming a customer, but I know that a lot of people here (and on other forums) are curious about the performance of your enclosures and would like to see SOME sort of evidence of their real-world performance before they go spending $40 on a box plan that may not outperform the normal ported box they have now.

 

[Toxic Tuan 10+ year member]

tommyk90,

Please stick to one thing at a time. You called the CRX box a Fart box. It's not a fart box...all depends on how you use it. You immediately jumped the gun make a false assumption.

Secondly...you make it seem so easy to win World finals by just having the equipment. How many people at world finals had the same car and the same equipment as I did at world finals? You mentioned the DD battery....I lost 0.3 db from my NSB90...again false assumption. I can do the same number with Kicker L7's as I do with DD subs...but they do fatigue a lot faster. Your claim: some CRX's are louder than others: It all depends on how you build it. I recently just built another CRX like mine and it shows the same characteristics. You will see it in the lanes shortly. Each piece of dynamat on certain parts of the vehicle matters. It shows that you know very little about what actually goes on in a DBDRAG SPL vehicle in Street Class. I challenge you to compete in DBDRAG before making such claims. And NO D.AMN excuses....like it's too expensive...blah blah blah. Last year...I sacrified a lot to save money for World Finals. So put up or STOP making seem so so easy.

Quote by tommyk90: "If you wanted to prove that your designs are somehow superior to everyone elses, you would have used them to win finals."

I did use my OWN design at world finals!!!! ...who did you think designed and built my box? Me of course. I hope you realize we have many many types of enclosure designs available. The phase box is only 1 type. Now if I designed and built a good 4th order bandpass...would you say that it's my design or somebody else's? Surely it would still be my design. Many can design a 4th order box...but are they all going to be the same and have the same output and performance? Of course not...there are many little tricks that we've been able to gather to give our enclosures and edge...one of which incorporates the vehicle cabin and air mass...etc.

Need another example?

2 ported enclosures exactly identical. However...one has a loading board inside in a very particular location for that application. The enclosure with the loading board will help with wave development and have a greater output by 2 dbs. Are both enclosures the same? NO. This is an example of 1 factor. There are numerous other factors. I hope you realize that sometimes OUR designs are simple ported enclosures that have just been beefed up by calculated adjustment with higher outputs...but never the less "our designs."

Tuan

 

[baseballer1100 5,000+ posts]

What size subs are going into that crx style box in the explorer?

 

[tommyk90 5,000+ posts]

tommyk90,
Please stick to one thing at a time. You called the CRX box a Fart box. It's not a fart box...all depends on how you use it. You immediately jumped the gun make a false assumption.

Secondly...you make it seem so easy to win World finals by just having the equipment. How many people at world finals had the same car and the same equipment as I did at world finals? You mentioned the DD battery....I lost 0.3 db from my NSB90. I can do the same number with Kicker L7's as I do with DD subs...but they do fatigue a lot faster. Your claim: some CRX's are louder than others: It all depends on how you build it. It shows that you know very little about what actually goes on in a DBDRAG SPL vehicle in Street Class. I challenge you to compete in DBDRAG before making such claims. And NO D.AMN excuses....like it's too expensive...blah blah blah. Last year...I sacrified a lot to save money for World Finals. So put up or shut up!

Tuan

I'm not going to waste my money and time to prove absolutely nothing to you. I'm not the one you have to try and impress, its the ones who are your potential buyers that you need to impress.

And some crx's are naturally louder than others depending on the setup. For instance, I know of a team that had a pair of CRX's, built SAME EXACT SETUP in both, yet one car was 3 dB's quieter. No bullshitting here. While there can be a whole ton of other things involved, it is common knowledge that some CRX's can just be louder than others. Take for instance first gen and second gen CRX's. Which one do you see in the lanes more often? Don't you think there is a reason for that?

I have nothing to prove, I'm not the one trying to sell self-proclaimed boxes to people. If people ask me to make them a box, I say "sure, i'll do it". And i'll build them a box that performs to their liking, and they are happy. Nowhere do I claim to be more superior to any other box builder out there or that I know more about box building than the next guy. There is no reason for that.

I'll be competing in db drag this year........in bassrace.

Quote by tommyk90: "If you wanted to prove that your designs are somehow superior to everyone elses, you would have used them to win finals."

I did use my OWN design at world finals!!!! ...who did you think designed and built my box? Me of course. I hope you realize we have many many types of enclosure designs available. The phase box is only 1 type. Now if I designed and built a good 4th order bandpass...would you say that it's my design or somebody else's? Surely it would still be my design.

Tuan

Did you use your phase box to win finals? Or a t-line? Is the box you used at finals one of the designs you are currently trying to sell? If it is, what kind of setup would require a box like that?

I designed my SPL box, but it's surely not something I would design/use for a daily driver car.

I don't want to get into an argument here. It won't look good for either of us. So can we just end the feud here and let us carry on our separate ways?

Why oh why did I bother posting in this thread. I knew it was nothing but bad news.

 

[sku 10+ year member]

The travesty in this post is that the legitimate request by potential customers for some type of data has largely been ignored....

I'm not flaming Tuan here, just pointing it out yet again...

 

[tommyk90 5,000+ posts]

The travesty in this post is that the legitimate request by potential customers for some type of data has largely been ignored....
I'm not flaming Tuan here, just pointing it out yet again...

And thus why this thread has carried on for so long....

 

[bimma85 5,000+ posts]

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//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/popcorn.gif.32dd9e22fd77e77bc3c907062768fcd2.gif

 

[jimrhit 10+ year member]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/ready2go.gif.6557fa3d88b9eaca9c7b8efb9cbd02ed.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/popcorn.gif.32dd9e22fd77e77bc3c907062768fcd2.gif

Put the popcorn away ... unless you like reruns ... Tuan will never buck up and give us the answer to the few simple questions he was asked.

WHAT DOES THE PHASE BOX DO?

HOW IS THIS DIFFERENT THAN A VOLUME COUPLED TL?

Instead, we get to listen to how amazing his skills are since he won dBdrags

 

[tommyk90 5,000+ posts]

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//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

I didn't want it to turn out this way. I was trying to explain to Tuan why people on here are so hostile about box builders.

TCAB didn't exactly blaze a good trail for future box builders. Although I'm sure that if someone buys a box or plan from Tuan they are 100% going to get it. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

Oh well. Not everyone can agree on every topic.

I know that this whole crappy thread isn't going to slow down his sales. I know that all the TCAB crap (which was WAY more controversial and impactful than this single thread) didn't slow down his business any. Although it should have.....

 

[Toxic Tuan 10+ year member]

"Did you use your phase box to win finals? Or a t-line? Is the box you used at finals one of the designs you are currently trying to sell? If it is, what kind of setup would require a box like that?"

I hope you realize we do have customers that compete in SPL. A couple of guys in Europe and Mexico did very well with our designs. T Box, Phase, etc...each box has it's own application...but you definitely wouldn't know that now...would you?

"Although I'm sure that if someone buys a box or plan from Tuan they are 100% going to get it. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif "

Edit- - Sorry I misunderstood. - Tuan

We'll let our own "customers" posts some results.

tuan

 

[jimrhit 10+ year member]

We'll let our customers posts some results cause we sure as hell won't post anything ....
tuan

fixed it for ya //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif