desertheat
10+ year member
CarAudio.com Veteran
- Thread Starter
- #61
ah old sir richard changed it since I read it last like back in 1999 haha Started out class a/b only
The only difference between the helix and Ural (from what spirit has posted) is the faceplate and from what I have heard the Helix will have some features disabled as well. The screen still is the only thing that is bad IMHO other than that it really has better build quality than a lot of units on the market now.The Helix looks far better. The URAL looks like something I would buy from Wal-Mart.............cheap looking big time! It has a lot of features for sure but when I looked at the specs I didn't see anything that looked impressive.
Does the URAL only have a one channel sub out?
I think once we see some reviews by well-respected folks in the industry that will help some of us get a good idea of sound quality. The cheapness of the unit just kills me. Maybe in person it don't look that cheap. The Helix version does look sweet.
The only difference between the helix and Ural (from what spirit has posted) is the faceplate and from what I have heard the Helix will have some features disabled as well. The screen still is the only thing that is bad IMHO other than that it really has better build quality than a lot of units on the market now.
It has a built in RTA.
All RC adds to the signal chain in a solid state vs solid state amp comparison is an equalizer, if one is needed. Which anyone can pick up at their local dealer for a few hundred bucks. And all he adds to the solid state amp in a comparison against a tube amp is a resistor on the outputs of the SS. Not sure where this few grand in processing you claim comes into play.
And you can perform the experiment in your vehicle for the challenge if you wish.
And "the right processing" would be an equalizer (if necessary), proper gain adjustment, and keeping the amplifier below audible distortion levels.
I don't know why everyone wants to make it sound like RC performs magic on the amps in his experiment. All he does is set the amplifier's gains identically, not allow you to exceed 2% THD, and equalize the frequency response where/when necessary. Stuff that anybody can do in their own systems. And really stuff that everybody should already be doing for the most part...but unfortunately most do not.
His experiment provides very valuable information. It proves what differences in amplifiers are and are not audible. I'm still not sure why you think the processing needs to cost thousands of dollars. We are talking about an amplifier and a DMM for the most part.
Which is more cost effective for the same net results....a $300 amp and a $200 EQ, or a $1000 amplifier?
If you don't see the value, then I don't think you fully understand the test and what it's set out to prove. Not that a watt is a watt, or that all amps sound the same (though the vast majority will have zero sonic differences when set properly). But that two amps that measure the same (within inaudible tolerances) will sound the same. And if the addition of something as simple as an EQ (if necessary) will allow that cheaper amp to "sound" just as wonderful as that expensive high end amp....how is that not valuable information?
And what I wanted to add before my PC fucked up on me ( //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/mad.gif.c18f003ab0ef8a0d9c27ca78d77a6392.gif ).....Basically what RC has said, and setup an experiment to prove, is that the "sonic characteristics" of any power amplifier can be summed up in the classical measurements of power, gain, frequency response, distortion and noise. His experiment (challenge) was setup to test the hypothesis that two amplifiers of equivalent actual power output, with equally set gains, distortion and noise below audible thresholds (distortion > 2% THD, which almost any amp should be able to do), and with inaudible differences in frequency response will sound identical. And so far, no one has disproven this. Which means that if you have two amplifiers, with equivalent power, equal gain settings, and inaudible differences in frequency response, distortion and noise....they will sound the same.
If an amplifier is not capable of producing inaudible distortion and noise...then that's not an amplifier worth owning anyways since any decently designed amplifier should be able to exceed this requirement easily. So that's an easy pass, and a lack of sonic difference. And since it's not hard to find two amplifiers of equivalent actual power output, and shouldn't be hard to set their gains identically......this leaves us with frequency response. Which, even if there is a small difference in the frequency response of two amplifiers...this is not hard to correct with the additional of an equalizer. But in most cases, even this is not necessary. But if it is necessary......I don't see the reason why it isn't valuable to know that, for example, a $300 amp plus a $200 EQ can "sound" just as great as that $1k+ amplifier at less than half the cost //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
Ural is making the unit for helix.But Ural..Russian, Helix..German...Whos making what then?
Actually I believe you have that a bit backwards sir. It was developed in coop with Russia, but Helix owns the rights to, Russia only offers the similiar Ural based on the Helix.Ural is making the unit for helix.
Wrong, The Ural has been in production since 2003 and yes there is coop between ACC and Helix on the competition conductor but the Ural is the base for the Helix Unit. The helix is going to be released at the auto and sound show this year (german version of SEMA) and ACC still owns the rights to the unit and will be producing it for them with the exception of the faceplate.Actually I believe you have that a bit backwards sir. It was developed in coop with Russia, but Helix owns the rights to, Russia only offers the similiar Ural based on the Helix.