Ed has the ural for sale for real now?

[Jaredl 10+ year member]

It's definitely true that once you reach the high-end where THD levels are low, SQ is purely subjective (or imaginary). However, a high class A bias or different amplifier design will create a different sound. Again, I would be very surprised if my Sony receiver had over 1% THD, but it definitely sounds different than my dad's tube amps.

It's definitely true that at a certain price point you're just paying for more prestige when you buy a higher-end amp like the Brax. There are very few car tube amps that actually use tubes in the output stage, and they generally cost more than Brax amps (Tru Copper tube, HSS Fidelity). Tubes are simply impractical for output use in a car because of their ridiculous current draw. Regardless, we've bickered enough. I think we agree on most points anyway. It was good arguing/talking.

 

[bimma85 5,000+ posts]

and back on topic now.....

 

[Lizardking 10+ year member]

It's definitely true that once you reach the high-end where THD levels are low, SQ is purely subjective (or imaginary). However, a high class A bias or different amplifier design will create a different sound. Again, I would be very surprised if my Sony receiver had over 1% THD, but it definitely sounds different than my dad's tube amps.
It's definitely true that at a certain price point you're just paying for more prestige when you buy a higher-end amp like the Brax. There are very few car tube amps that actually use tubes in the output stage, and they generally cost more than Brax amps (Tru Copper tube, HSS Fidelity). Tubes are simply impractical for output use in a car because of their ridiculous current draw. Regardless, we've bickered enough. I think we agree on most points anyway. It was good arguing/talking.

True that, friend!

 

[desertheat 10+ year member]

Since you guys are way off topic, here is my 2 cents.... The test / challence good old sir richard put up was only comparing 2 class a/b amps with 0 processing and did not including tube amps ect. With 0 processing, thd under .1% and a frequency responce of 20-20K in a nutshell you cannot tell class a/b amps apart. I think you guys never read the test / challenge that you speak of or tube amps which are highly colored and have varied frequency responce and much higher levels of distortion would NEVER have been brought up, Class a amps would not be brought up and freakin processing would not be brought up!! *LOL* now back on freaking topic. 95% of this post has nothing to do with the title.

 

[desertheat 10+ year member]

I like it //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif Simple and rusky....

http://www.uralcdd.com/Ural_Concert_Eng.pdf

 

[Decipha 10+ year member]

Ooohhh, look, a shiny quarter.....

my nugga

 

[Decipha 10+ year member]

But of course its always nice to say I'm running "Brax" from Germany which is like the best in world since its from Germany.....//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

volfenhag... a german concept... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rotflol.gif.b453361716769b8110ddefc85ff03cd2.gif

 

[hoodkid 10+ year member]

volfenhag... a german concept... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rotflol.gif.b453361716769b8110ddefc85ff03cd2.gif

volfenhag FTW

 

[locotony 10+ year member]

Back on topic, I received one of the first ones once they got in country (had a little advance warning they were coming) the units ED has in stock right now that are left after the Group buy people were contacted will be sold for 500 but you need to call ED to confirm that they still have stock left (I beleive only 16 to 20 of them were available) After trhat they will be 650. As of right now happy as hell with the unit right now and it is fairly simple to use overall, SQ was better than with my Kenwood x979 even before I worked on the TA and EQ settings. Only thing I don't like at this point is the screen and hope that the Helix one becomes available as it looks more like the Pioneer OEL display as i can barely read the currunt one in sunlight no matter how high I have the brightness (drawback to the deck layout in an RSX with almost any HU) I'll be going active with it in a few weeks when I get the time to run some additional wires to the front of the car and and really interested in how it will sound with full independant control of every channel.

Installed Pics:

 

[pwnt by pat 10+ year member]

cool. Couldn't get a black unit?

 

[desertheat 10+ year member]

Looks sweet. Ticks me off, just bought a cd7000 and really wanted to try this unit. But will wait for the brax to come out and if the brax is under $1500 with a better screen I will buy.

 

[Lizardking 10+ year member]

The Helix looks far better. The URAL looks like something I would buy from Wal-Mart.............cheap looking big time! It has a lot of features for sure but when I looked at the specs I didn't see anything that looked impressive.

Does the URAL only have a one channel sub out?

I think once we see some reviews by well-respected folks in the industry that will help some of us get a good idea of sound quality. The cheapness of the unit just kills me. Maybe in person it don't look that cheap. The Helix version does look sweet.

 

[6spdcoupe 5,000+ posts]

The Helix "conductor" is expected in late May, I should have some more info later this evening/tomorrow morn.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

Since you guys are way off topic, here is my 2 cents.... The test / challence good old sir richard put up was only comparing 2 class a/b amps with 0 processing and did not including tube amps ect. With 0 processing, thd under .1% and a frequency responce of 20-20K in a nutshell you cannot tell class a/b amps apart. I think you guys never read the test / challenge that you speak of or tube amps which are highly colored and have varied frequency responce and much higher levels of distortion would NEVER have been brought up, Class a amps would not be brought up and freakin processing would not be brought up!! *LOL*

Back off topic ( //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif ), you can compare any two amplifiers you like in the challenge. Class A vs Class D, class A/B vs Class A, Class A/B vs Class D, etc. And the THD does not have to be under .1% for the challenge, only under 2%. Also, he will allow you to compare a tube amp to a solid state amp, he simply adds are resistor to the output of the solid state amp to increase the output impedance of the solid state amp.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

It means that, with a few grand of processing (in a studio, not a car), a decent amp can be processed to sound like a "high-end" amp.

All RC adds to the signal chain in a solid state vs solid state amp comparison is an equalizer, if one is needed. Which anyone can pick up at their local dealer for a few hundred bucks. And all he adds to the solid state amp in a comparison against a tube amp is a resistor on the outputs of the SS. Not sure where this few grand in processing you claim comes into play.

And you can perform the experiment in your vehicle for the challenge if you wish.

Richard Clark's test doesn't prove that an RF amp replacing a Brax amp with no processing will sound the same, rather that it can sound the same with the right processing.

And "the right processing" would be an equalizer (if necessary), proper gain adjustment, and keeping the amplifier below audible distortion levels.

I don't know why everyone wants to make it sound like RC performs magic on the amps in his experiment. All he does is set the amplifier's gains identically, not allow you to exceed 2% THD, and equalize the frequency response where/when necessary. Stuff that anybody can do in their own systems. And really stuff that everybody should already be doing for the most part...but unfortunately most do not.

I do not see the value of this test in a car environment, where the processing needed would cost more than the high-end amps.

His experiment provides very valuable information. It proves what differences in amplifiers are and are not audible. I'm still not sure why you think the processing needs to cost thousands of dollars. We are talking about an amplifier and a DMM for the most part.

Which is more cost effective for the same net results....a $300 amp and a $200 EQ, or a $1000 amplifier?

If you don't see the value, then I don't think you fully understand the test and what it's set out to prove. Not that a watt is a watt, or that all amps sound the same (though the vast majority will have zero sonic differences when set properly). But that two amps that measure the same (within inaudible tolerances) will sound the same. And if the addition of something as simple as an EQ (if necessary) will allow that cheaper amp to "sound" just as wonderful as that expensive high end amp....how is that not valuable information?

And what I wanted to add before my PC fucked up on me ( //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/mad.gif.c18f003ab0ef8a0d9c27ca78d77a6392.gif ).....Basically what RC has said, and setup an experiment to prove, is that the "sonic characteristics" of any power amplifier can be summed up in the classical measurements of power, gain, frequency response, distortion and noise. His experiment (challenge) was setup to test the hypothesis that two amplifiers of equivalent actual power output, with equally set gains, distortion and noise below audible thresholds (distortion > 2% THD, which almost any amp should be able to do), and with inaudible differences in frequency response will sound identical. And so far, no one has disproven this. Which means that if you have two amplifiers, with equivalent power, equal gain settings, and inaudible differences in frequency response, distortion and noise....they will sound the same.

If an amplifier is not capable of producing inaudible distortion and noise...then that's not an amplifier worth owning anyways since any decently designed amplifier should be able to exceed this requirement easily. So that's an easy pass, and a lack of sonic difference. And since it's not hard to find two amplifiers of equivalent actual power output, and shouldn't be hard to set their gains identically......this leaves us with frequency response. Which, even if there is a small difference in the frequency response of two amplifiers...this is not hard to correct with the additional of an equalizer. But in most cases, even this is not necessary. But if it is necessary......I don't see the reason why it isn't valuable to know that, for example, a $300 amp plus a $200 EQ can "sound" just as great as that $1k+ amplifier at less than half the cost //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif