Ed has the ural for sale for real now?

[Eugenics 5,000+ posts]

$1000 amp or a $5000 amp you won't hear a difference no matter what you read on here!//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

i would beg to differ

 

[Jaredl 10+ year member]

$1000 amp or a $5000 amp you won't hear a difference no matter what you read on here!//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

You're running awfully expensive amps given your view on the matter. I would agree that while driving with a high noise floor you won't notice much difference between a $1000 amp and $5000 amp of similar power ratings, but amps definitely have different sonic signatures.

 

[Lizardking 10+ year member]

If somone can prove that a difference can be "heard" then YOU must have sub sonic hearing! Is there a difference in pyle versus ZAPCO then yes.... When you get into the league of the big dawgs you WILL NOT HEAR A DIFFERENCE.....plain and simple...

What's nice about my position is that I DON'T have to prove there isn't a difference....someone has to PROVE there is!!//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

But of course I would tell everyone there is a difference too if I had to justify why I paid $3000 for one amp....

Your right I do run some elite amps....but they don't sound any better then any of the other brands that I paid far less for...... As you get older in life you start realize how the boogey man, easter bunny, santa clause and GOD doesn't exist....Realist!

 

[spudracer326 10+ year member]

If somone can prove that a difference can be "heard" then YOU must have sub sonic hearing! Is there a difference in pyle versus ZAPCO then yes.... When you get into the league of the big dawgs you WILL NOT HEAR A DIFFERENCE.....plan and simple...
What's nice about my position is that I DON'T have to prove there isn't a difference....someone has to PROVE there is!!//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

But of course I would tell everyone there is a difference too if I had to justify why I paid $3000 grand for one amp....

Your right I do run some elite amps....but they don't sound any better then any of the other brands that I paid far less for...... As you get older in life you start realize how the boogey man, easter bunny, santa clause and GOD doesn't exist....Realist!

you get to a point with amps when a watt is a watt...

 

[Jaredl 10+ year member]

"A watt is a watt" does not mean that all amplifiers sound the same. It means that, with a few grand of processing (in a studio, not a car), a decent amp can be processed to sound like a "high-end" amp. Richard Clark's test doesn't prove that an RF amp replacing a Brax amp with no processing will sound the same, rather that it can sound the same with the right processing. I do not see the value of this test in a car environment, where the processing needed would cost more than the high-end amps. It's another story in home audio where people pay $50+ grand for amps.

 

[Lizardking 10+ year member]

It's like I said, when I was a pup I believed a lot of B.S. too. Amps today when you get into a realm of the big dawgs like Zapco, Arc Audio, Brax, etc etc....you won't hear a difference!!! No matter how someone tries to justify their purchase! I seen systems with amps like BOSS that sound just (SOMETIMES BETTER) as good as a system with Zapco's........why? INSTALL!!

 

[Jaredl 10+ year member]

I would definitely agree that while driving there is no way you're going to hear a difference between Arc, Zapco, Brax, or any other nice amp. Again, I don't see why this argument should really apply to car audio, as it has too many compromises in far more important areas (speakers, install) to worry about an insignificant change in amps. However, by your logic, if I were to switch my dad's Cary monoblocks for my Sony receiver (still of decent quality) and make sure the gains are okay, I would not be able to tell the difference between the different amps (or the Sony should sound better as it puts out more power).

 

[Lizardking 10+ year member]

It's nothing to do with logic!! when it comes it car audio its fact!! Will there be a difference in let's say a Lanzar amp and a Brax....sure there is... The Lanzar is going to use components with a lessor quality which will induce noise and/or not filter out the noise correctly. The Brax will obviously use components that will do a better job at amplifying the music. But its like I said you get to a point where the human ear will not be able to tell a difference in the sound it hears.....You might be able to convince yourself you hear a difference but in reality there is no difference. I believe today that most amps will use quality components that will amplifiy the sound without any noticeable differences...... You can't let yourself be fooled by the fast talking dealer or the guy with the high post count!

 

[Lizardking 10+ year member]

Another note: If you have a choice between getting let's say a Arc Audio for $800 versus a Brax for $3000, take the Arc Audio....your wallet will be happier and your sound will be just as good as the Brax....guaranteed!! You won't get some super duper sound from the Brax that will make everyone around be in a state of disbelief!! Put the extra money into something else that makes sense!!

But of course its always nice to say I'm running "Brax" from Germany which is like the best in world since its from Germany.....//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

 

[Jaredl 10+ year member]

You're trying to argue over a quantitative point by raising somewhat qualitative (ie. "install" - obviously a car with Zapco amps and shitty frequency response will sound worse than a car with Boss amps and pleasing frequency response) points. Again, car audio is not an environment conducive to comparing the sonic signatures of amps (such as frequency response, and different impedances with tube amps (why some think tube amps have a different sound)). Again, I'm confident that I could hear a difference between Cary monoblocks with a BAT preamp and a Sony receiver with no processing difference.

Edit - I didn't read your other posts before I posted that as I was watching TV. Why would say, different capacitors in the Brax change the sound so drastically? Unless the Lanzar was using completely crappy internals, there is probably an almost immeasurable difference. For the record, the most expensive amp I own (well it's on its way) is a Genesis Dual Mono which I purchased for just over $300 used. In Atlanta, the "high-end" is JL amps sold by salesmen preaching how JL subs are clearly the best sounding subs on the market, so I don't hear anything from salesmen. There is obviously very little difference between high end brands, but in your earlier post you compared Boss amps to Zapco amps. I would say that comparison is more drastic than a Lanzar to a Brax. RC's test, IIRC, stated that completely crappy amps can't be compared to the "high-end" amps. Some more food for thought is that many ECA members swear by dual mono amps, yet their measurable benefits are not extreme.

 

[Lizardking 10+ year member]

We could go into variables all day long....but the fact remains.....no difference! Just buy a processor,DSP or headunit that can adjust the frequencies/slopes you need adjusted and your ears will thank you......NOT THE AMP!

You have to love good ole American marketing fluff!! Mine is better then yours because it cost more....please... How the young (which I was the same) know everything! We just have to learn as we go......experience!

I'm done ranting....LOL....

 

[Lizardking 10+ year member]

I remember when I went from Eclipse to JL Audio.....no difference.....then JL Audio to Zapco Reference.....no difference......then Zapco Reference to the Zapco C2K's....and guess what NO difference.. Now if I went from lanzar to the C2K's would I hear a difference? maybe? I know I would convince myself I did if I didn't.

Lanzar and Boss are considered very low end...thus why I used them.

Don't be fooled by the members on ECA.....there are some good ones over there...werewolf and kev7909 and slick would be the only opinions I would trust!! No B.S. with those guys just plain facts.....

You can't take everyones word for truth (including mine) just because they have a high post count or cult following on a forum. The real guys won't sit and post on some forum and claim they are all knowing. Some of the best don't bother because of all B.S. that gets thrown around. I would say all and all that about 10-15 guys on the forums (all forums) I would take their word as the truth spoke from pure experience.

 

[Jaredl 10+ year member]

I'm not trying to be an *******, but you haven't really backed up any of your points with anything other than anecdotal evidence. Again, I agree that at a certain point amps will make no difference with the isolation of all variables. However, the fact remains that, especially in car audio, there will be far too many variables. I also agree that processing, speakers, and proper installation will also have a greater effect than amps. With all of that said, the fact remains, that you still have not explained why a $200 solid state receiver will sound the same as a pair of $10,000 tube amps. Even on the same speakers with the same wires (not that the wires will make a difference), you will hear a difference between these amps provided there is no variation in the signal sent to both amps.

Edit- By members of ECA, i meant people like Audionutz who would be considered fairly well regarded. I also believe that werewolf is a fan of tube amps.

 

[Lizardking 10+ year member]

Would it sound better? can it be proven? SQ is subjective.... I'm sure in home audio $200 amp wouldn't sound as good as a $10000 amp......but why? My Denon $3000 receiver don't sound any better then my old Sherwood from Radio Shack....is it because of my speakers? Should I upgrade to better speakers to take advantage of my Denon? The receiver is the brains of any audio source, so the quality will make a difference when it comes to a receiver. Processing!

I backed my point up by stating my and many many many many many others experience with brands of amps... All I can go by is experience....I don't have any fancy testing equipment....my ears can only hear what they hear and what my brain processes.

The fact is NO one I've met on any forum has yet to prove to me they can hear a difference.....why? how do you measure? SQ is subjective.

By the way, I know a guy who bought a tube amp for his car and guess what...he's getting rid of it....why? He's going Brax....because he's been bitten by the bug.

 

[Lizardking 10+ year member]

I think these kind of debates can go on and on.... Just enjoy what you have and buy what you feel like buying...we only live once!!! life is short and enjoy it while you can... just don't get caught up in B.S.