Has the quality of CD-RW degraded over the years?

[user340]

Hi,
I have a Pioneer DEH Head unit in my suzuki car. It's been in use for a while and has a CD player.
The specs say it can read CD-RW (Rewritable CDs) and up until now I never had any issues.
Realizing that the existing CD-RW discs are now old, I bought a pack of 5 verbatim CD-RWs.

I followed exactly same process of burning, same app, same settings, same files, same burner, same lower speeds of 4X. The burning and verification process reported success.
And now only 2 of them play, other two stutter or skip data massively and 5th one just sits there inside the player doing nothing.
That makes me wonder if the quality of optical media has degraded over the years. Verbatim is a very good international brand.
I can't blame burner or app or even the HU because 2 discs play perfectly.
I guess the tolerance of CD-RW (that are anyways low reflective) seems to be in micro meters?

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[Mitchell Fosgate III]

CD-burners and 2 for 5 is not bad figure to go on. Different media type. One is for CDs which can be used on computers and DVDs and the other can be used on Car Stereos and radios. I wouldn't say it has degraded over the years. Just a matter of making those CDs and seeing which ones will work on car stereos. 2 for 5 is a good number to go on. You make 10 copies, you come out with 4 good CDs. Good yet.​

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

Try burning on a lower write speed and if that doesn't work I'd try a different burning program

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

Hi,
I have a Pioneer DEH Head unit in my suzuki car. It's been in use for a while and has a CD player.
The specs say it can read CD-RW (Rewritable CDs) and up until now I never had any issues.
Realizing that the existing CD-RW discs are now old, I bought a pack of 5 verbatim CD-RWs.

I followed exactly same process of burning, same app, same settings, same files, same burner, same lower speeds of 4X. The burning and verification process reported success.
And now only 2 of them play, other two stutter or skip data massively and 5th one just sits there inside the player doing nothing.
That makes me wonder if the quality of optical media has degraded over the years. Verbatim is a very good international brand.
I can't blame burner or app or even the HU because 2 discs play perfectly.
I guess the tolerance of CD-RW (that are anyways low reflective) seems to be in micro meters?

Verbatim is still a very good CD/RW brand. I would suspect the software (updates can make or break software) even software that had nothing wrong with it. Second would be file TYPE. Mixing file types on one disk to play in a head unit is problematic. 3rd, on the disc that just sits there... is the disc finalized?

There are two file types I would use... either clone the disc as an exact copy or use MP3's. As time has passed there are file types that may not have been out when that head unit was made and or they just may not be compatible.

 

[user340]

Thanks.

The lowest I can go is 4X and that's what I used. There's no option to go lower than that.
Yes all 5 were Finalized. They all used default ISO9660 Joilet format. My HU supports mp3 player that as well can handle VBR.
Strangely what I have as old as 15 years old CDRWs, they still work flawlessly. I just bought brand new 5 verbatim assuming that my old ones may go bad soon, as I see lots of scratches on them now and they appear dull!
My suspicion is on the recording layer depth, since it passed the verification, it appears like PC DVD drive can read them but not all by car HU.

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

Thanks.

The lowest I can go is 4X and that's what I used. There's no option to go lower than that.
Yes all 5 were Finalized. They all used default ISO9660 Joilet format. My HU supports mp3 player that as well can handle VBR.
Strangely what I have as old as 15 years old CDRWs, they still work flawlessly. I just bought brand new 5 verbatim assuming that my old ones may go bad soon, as I see lots of scratches on them now and they appear dull!
My suspicion is on the recording layer depth, since it passed the verification, it appears like PC DVD drive can read them but not all by car HU.

I am curious if the CD's are thinner now as well.

 

[1aespinoza Premium Member]

I am curious if the CD's are thinner now as well.

Just yesterday I watched a YT video of a guy holding a CD by his aero-port and the discs broke! I do NOT remember CDs being that flimsy.

 

[highfigh]

I am curious if the CD's are thinner now as well.

The thickness of the plastic doesn't matter since the data is written to the Aluminum layer at the top. It may not have the same speed stability, though.

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

The thickness of the plastic doesn't matter since the data is written to the Aluminum layer at the top. It may not have the same speed stability, though.

IIRC, on RW CDs, the data is stored in the plastic.

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

Here...

 

[highfigh]

IIRC, on RW CDs, the data is stored in the plastic.

Which is more reflective, Aluminum or plastic?

Go to the link and read the section titled 'Mechanism of Action'.

CD-RW - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

Hi,
I have a Pioneer DEH Head unit in my suzuki car. It's been in use for a while and has a CD player.
The specs say it can read CD-RW (Rewritable CDs) and up until now I never had any issues.
Realizing that the existing CD-RW discs are now old, I bought a pack of 5 verbatim CD-RWs.

I followed exactly same process of burning, same app, same settings, same files, same burner, same lower speeds of 4X. The burning and verification process reported success.
And now only 2 of them play, other two stutter or skip data massively and 5th one just sits there inside the player doing nothing.
That makes me wonder if the quality of optical media has degraded over the years. Verbatim is a very good international brand.
I can't blame burner or app or even the HU because 2 discs play perfectly.
I guess the tolerance of CD-RW (that are anyways low reflective) seems to be in micro meters?

Ah, something I know quite a bit about. I have some pretty extensive background with using both computer based burning and consumer based burning, old school. I have a Modwright modded Pioneer Elite PDR-99 fed by a Pioneer Elite PD-65 to do bit for bit burning using 24k Kodak or 24k ultra-disc for all of my audio CD's - exclusively.

How old is the head unit?

If it is disc is scratched enough to interrupt the signal, that can be an issue. If the Head unit is older-ish, the lasers get weaker as time goes on and it may be that it is having a more difficult time reading the burned CD's.

In my sound room, I have a Pioneer Elite 300 CD unit and it slowly got more and more picky about burned disc playback until it just quit, even though it read comercial CD's fine still. When asked, the pioneer tech, he indicated it is likely that the laser was just getting old and weaker. I had it replaced and it is working like new again.

If the CD's work elsewhere and not the HU, likely it's the HU unless the CD's you got are consumer audio CD's and are not finalized properly, hard to say but i'm thinking it may be the HU.

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

Which is more reflective, Aluminum or plastic?

Go to the link and read the section titled 'Mechanism of Action'.

CD-RW - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In this case neither since "the reflective layer is, however, a silver-indium-antimony-tellurium (AgInSbTe) alloy with a polycrystalline structure and reflective properties in its original state." I actually did a report on CD-RW many decades ago and remember the laser altering the structure, but didn't remember the specifics. Did a little research on Mini Disc to see if perhaps I mixed up the two technologies, but Mini Disc also used an alloy to store data. Too bad Mini Disc died - yet another superior technology from Sony that Sony let die trying to horde it to itself. Sony was almost (iirc) 5 years ahead of the curve and yet managed to lose out to inferior technologies.

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

In this case neither since "the reflective layer is, however, a silver-indium-antimony-tellurium (AgInSbTe) alloy with a polycrystalline structure and reflective properties in its original state." I actually did a report on CD-RW many decades ago and remember the laser altering the structure, but didn't remember the specifics. Did a little research on Mini Disc to see if perhaps I mixed up the two technologies, but Mini Disc also used an alloy to store data. Too bad Mini Disc died - yet another superior technology from Sony that Sony let die trying to horde it to itself. Sony was almost (iirc) 5 years ahead of the curve and yet managed to lose out to inferior technologies.

Mini Disc were cool.

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

Wasn't there also a shift in the output power of lasers used in players at some point?
Depending on age of your DEH, it may have a weaker laser than older units.

BUT those lasers do also get weaker over time. If it's an old head unit, the laser could be getting weaker over time. it could also have a clouded lens.

Have you tried those CD-RWs on multiple other players?