Ebayers/Im i wrong

[tmoney 10+ year member]

I understand charging for materials, and I agree that it's no worse than the paypal fees. However, I still don't think you should be paid for your time because you're not a professional shipper. Hell, if you think you should be paid for every little thing, take it all the way. Charge people storage fees for letting the stuff sit around your house. Charge restocking fees for any returned equipment. There's no end to what you could charge following that logic.
I don't mean to start a personal grudge here, but I just can't justify charging as much as you claim. Let's just take this guy's amp as an example.

$45= $3 box for double-boxing (assuming the equipment is in original packaging already), $10 max in bubble wrap/ foam peanuts (which you wouldn't use all of anyway), and probably about $15 for shipping via fedEx Home Delivery. That adds up to $28, meaning that the seller thinks he should be paid $17/hour for packing the equipment and driving to the FedEx store. I don't even think FedEx/UPS pay most of their employees that much.

u have plenty of sense; u think like i think, but i did get in contact with the seller and decided to relist it without going to ebay. sent me a nasty email saying he can charge wat eva he wants to charge. i didnt reply,i just dont want the thing anymore cause of all of this. so i dont get a bad feedback and he say he got to pay ebay fees cause i won it. im sorry, but thats wat u get when u try to screw someone.

 

[IamDeMan 5,000+ posts]

u have plenty of sense; u think like i think, but i did get in contact with the seller and decided to relist it without going to ebay. sent me a nasty email saying he can charge wat eva he wants to charge. i didnt reply,i just dont want the thing anymore cause of all of this. so i dont get a bad feedback and he say he got to pay ebay fees cause i won it. im sorry, but thats wat u get when u try to screw someone.

Why not ask him top do a mutaul witdrawl? This gets him his fees back on both are off the hook from proceeding wih the deal. I havwe done it a couple fo time where I didn't see eye to eye with a seller or buyer. You n00bs need to learn how to properly conduct business on Ebay.

 

[Prowler573 5,000+ posts]

u have plenty of sense; u think like i think, but i did get in contact with the seller and decided to relist it without going to ebay. sent me a nasty email saying he can charge wat eva he wants to charge. i didnt reply,i just dont want the thing anymore cause of all of this. so i dont get a bad feedback and he say he got to pay ebay fees cause i won it. im sorry, but thats wat u get when u try to screw someone.

He's absolutely correct.

He does have to pay eBay a fee because the listing ended with a winner (you).

It's called the Final Value Fee and it is a percentage of whatever the winning bid is. I forget at the moment exactly what percentage it is but I know it exists.

You could still easily get a negative feedback if that seller should choose to leave you one. He has a full 90 days after the end of the listing to leave feedback for the transaction. If he were to wait until the 90th day after the listing went inactive and then left a negative feedback for you and you didn't happen to notice until the next day or later? You wouldn't even have the option of leaving a retaliatory negative for him.

The point here is you decided to wait until the tail end of the listing to ask your question about shipping fees. Do I think the seller is in the right by charging as much as you say he was asking for?

Absolutely not.

Do I think you were foolish in waiting until the final 9 hours of the listing to attempt to ask him about it?

Absolutely yes I do.

Think about that for a minute.......9 hours before the listing was over.

Is there some unwritten rule that says a seller has to be in front of their PC during the last half-day that any given listing is active to answer questions from people who didn't see fit to ask them earlier?

Certainly not. I'd wager that the listing in question was either a 7 day or 10 day listing, correct?

Then why wait until less than half a day is left to ask about shipping?

From the sounds of things you got it all worked out to your satisfaction and at the end of the day I reckon that's a good thing.

Be aware that the seller still reserves the right to tag you with a negative feedback for failure to complete the sale that you are technically contractually obligated to complete.

No - I'm not defending your seller and his exhorbitant shipping charges - please do not mistake my intent here.

But I'm with IAmDeMan in thinking that you should educate yourself a bit more on the inner workings of eBay if you're going to continue to shop there...

 

[tmoney 10+ year member]

He's absolutely correct.He does have to pay eBay a fee because the listing ended with a winner (you).

It's called the Final Value Fee and it is a percentage of whatever the winning bid is. I forget at the moment exactly what percentage it is but I know it exists.

You could still easily get a negative feedback if that seller should choose to leave you one. He has a full 90 days after the end of the listing to leave feedback for the transaction. If he were to wait until the 90th day after the listing went inactive and then left a negative feedback for you and you didn't happen to notice until the next day or later? You wouldn't even have the option of leaving a retaliatory negative for him.

The point here is you decided to wait until the tail end of the listing to ask your question about shipping fees. Do I think the seller is in the right by charging as much as you say he was asking for?

Absolutely not.

Do I think you were foolish in waiting until the final 9 hours of the listing to attempt to ask him about it?

Absolutely yes I do.

Think about that for a minute.......9 hours before the listing was over.

Is there some unwritten rule that says a seller has to be in front of their PC during the last half-day that any given listing is active to answer questions from people who didn't see fit to ask them earlier?

Certainly not. I'd wager that the listing in question was either a 7 day or 10 day listing, correct?

Then why wait until less than half a day is left to ask about shipping?

From the sounds of things you got it all worked out to your satisfaction and at the end of the day I reckon that's a good thing.

Be aware that the seller still reserves the right to tag you with a negative feedback for failure to complete the sale that you are technically contractually obligated to complete.

No - I'm not defending your seller and his exhorbitant shipping charges - please do not mistake my intent here.

But I'm with IAmDeMan in thinking that you should educate yourself a bit more on the inner workings of eBay if you're going to continue to shop there...

i learn my lesson. thank all of u for yall insight and whatnot. i will me more careful.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

He's absolutely correct.He does have to pay eBay a fee because the listing ended with a winner (you).

It's called the Final Value Fee and it is a percentage of whatever the winning bid is. I forget at the moment exactly what percentage it is but I know it exists.

Not true.

Ebay allows for FVF credits in cases just like these.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/credits.html

http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/unpaid-item-process.html

If the seller files a dispute and they do a mutual withdraw then the seller gets a FVF credit aswell as tmoney not receiving an nonpaying bidder strike as a result of the dispute.

Win-Win.

 

[mlstrass 5,000+ posts]

I guess that's true if you want to eat the cost of your time and packing materials. Personally I don't which is why I list it as a handling fee.

I have no problem with you adding in the charges for packing materials, but your time is worth NOTHING. YOU are the guy trying to get rid of something, but you act like you're doing the buyer a favor by taking it to be shipped //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

 

[Macklessdaddy 10+ year member]

I have no problem with you adding in the charges for packing materials, but your time is worth NOTHING. YOU are the guy trying to get rid of something, but you act like you're doing the buyer a favor by taking it to be shipped //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

man how in the hell you figure time is not money,i don't know about you but my time is exspensive:greedy:,to the OP NEVER EVER bid on an auction without a shipping price period oh and tell my people in the magic city i'm coming to visit soon cause ain't no place like the ham

 

[Prowler573 5,000+ posts]

I have no problem with you adding in the charges for packing materials, but your time is worth NOTHING. YOU are the guy trying to get rid of something, but you act like you're doing the buyer a favor by taking it to be shipped //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

I think this has to be one of the singularly most assinine statements I have ever read on this forum ~ and that's truly saying something...

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

I think this has to be one of the singularly most assinine statements I have ever read on this forum ~ and that's truly saying something...

Actually, he's right. To the BUYER, the seller's time should be worth nothing. Like he said above, the seller isn't doing the buyer a favor packaging and shipping the item, the seller wanted it sold as much as the buyer wanted it bought.

Ive had people try to charge me large shipping fees, and explain that its because 1) they make alot of money so their time is valuable //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif , or 2) they are just so thorough at packaging that they must charge extra for their time/effort/expense.

I dont care if Im buying an amp off of Bill Gates himself, Im not paying someone's self-stated labor rate, Im not paying their salary wages for them to do soemthing expected anyway (properly package an item HE is selling) and Im not gonna pay extra to getting the packaging required for said item to arrive safely. IMO these are all scams brought about by sellers to make a little more profit.

So yes, in terms of a seller's time in packaging, unless I as the buyer request special circumstances/packaging that is beyond what could be reasonably expected, the seller's time is worth nothing to the buyer.

 

[95Prober 10+ year member]

Think about that for a minute.......9 hours before the listing was over.

Is there some unwritten rule that says a seller has to be in front of their PC during the last half-day that any given listing is active to answer questions from people who didn't see fit to ask them earlier?

Certainly not. I'd wager that the listing in question was either a 7 day or 10 day listing, correct?

Then why wait until less than half a day is left to ask about shipping?

...

yeah, thats true. not everyone is in front of the computer that long and the OP shouldnt have bid without knowing. but then again, a good seller would know that its the last 12 hours hours, actually 1 or 2 where many questions come in. i always make sure im around during that time. but then again, if its a large ebay store, it'd be harder with many items.

also, charging extra for materials etc. is all fine and dandy, but who says they'll do a good job?? not everyones packaging is the same and many people that arent on these forums that sell car audio think the original packaging is enough. even if you said here is extra money to package it well, they STILL might just cheap out on ya! its a crap shoot!

 

[Prowler573 5,000+ posts]

To audioholic ~

I disagree.

It is a rare occurence that you can purchase something online that doesn't have an added shipping fee to consider above and beyond the actual cost of the item(s) purchased.

I've shipped enough things personally whether it be the result of a sale on here, eBay, or the like, to things I have shipped from Louisiana to Australia when sending various things to Mrs Prowler, to know that it is an even more unusual situation to find that the shipping charges are no more than what it actually cost to ship the item(s) via whatever courier was used.

So - where does that added expense come from? It's got to come from somewhere, right?

Not everyone has easy access to a local post office branch, a UPS Store (or dropoff location), A FedEx Kinko's, or another shipping service of whatever brand.

Please let me reiterate that I in no shape, form, or fashion am defending the shipping charges as posted by the OP about the amp he won at auction. That level of fee padding is inexcusable and rather arrogant. But to make a blanket statement that a seller's time is worthless is equally as arrogant to me.

Sure as a seller you want your stuff to sell and at a fair valuation to boot. Most likely a seller wants his items to sell moreso than the buyer wants to make that purchase! I'll happily agree with that portion of your post. Additionally I also agree that as a seller it is your responsibility to see that whatever you just sold is adequately readied for shipping by way of safe and secure packaging and a reasonable time period that the *whatever* ships out after the seller has been paid.

Everyone's time is worth money, in my estimation. Whether you be the lowliest of ditch diggers to the most wealthy individual on the planet (who I think, currently, is some Middle Eastern sheik of some sort who owns a staggering amount of the overall oil-producing real estate spread across several countries but I could easily be mistaken about that).

So - here we are. I think the best solution for you and I is to simply agree to disagree. Certainly I can say that your arguments aren't going to sway me from my position in the least and I imagine the same can be said of the reverse. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

To audioholic ~
I disagree.

It is a rare occurence that you can purchase something online that doesn't have an added shipping fee to consider above and beyond the actual cost of the item(s) purchased.

I've shipped enough things personally whether it be the result of a sale on here, eBay, or the like, to things I have shipped from Louisiana to Australia when sending various things to Mrs Prowler, to know that it is an even more unusual situation to find that the shipping charges are no more than what it actually cost to ship the item(s) via whatever courier was used.

So - where does that added expense come from? It's got to come from somewhere, right?

Not everyone has easy access to a local post office branch, a UPS Store (or dropoff location), A FedEx Kinko's, or another shipping service of whatever brand.

Please let me reiterate that I in no shape, form, or fashion am defending the shipping charges as posted by the OP about the amp he won at auction. That level of fee padding is inexcusable and rather arrogant. But to make a blanket statement that a seller's time is worthless is equally as arrogant to me.

Sure as a seller you want your stuff to sell and at a fair valuation to boot. Most likely a seller wants his items to sell moreso than the buyer wants to make that purchase! I'll happily agree with that portion of your post. Additionally I also agree that as a seller it is your responsibility to see that whatever you just sold is adequately readied for shipping by way of safe and secure packaging and a reasonable time period that the *whatever* ships out after the seller has been paid.

Everyone's time is worth money, in my estimation. Whether you be the lowliest of ditch diggers to the most wealthy individual on the planet (who I think, currently, is some Middle Eastern sheik of some sort who owns a staggering amount of the overall oil-producing real estate spread across several countries but I could easily be mistaken about that).

So - here we are. I think the best solution for you and I is to simply agree to disagree. Certainly I can say that your arguments aren't going to sway me from my position in the least and I imagine the same can be said of the reverse. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

This has nothing to do with 'lowly ditch diggers'. The point was, if you are trying to sell something, you are responsible for shipping it in a reasonable manner, for a reasonable amount of money. If I bid on something on ebay, should I also need to inquire how far this seller lives from the post office, if he'll have to walk or drive, what fuel mileage his vehicle gets, etc etc? No, the buyer is not responsible for making sure the seller has a reasonable way to ship the item within a reasonable budget.
Everyone's time is worth money, who disputed it wasn't? But do you get paid for every action you take in a day? Does someone pay you to pump your gas or to carry your items to the register at WalMart? No they dont, and neither should anyone get paid for the labor of packaging item THEY are selling, beyond reasonable expenses... unless specified before hand so the buyer was aware while bidding/buying/whatever.

This isn't rocket science, you dont get paid an hourly fee to put the item YOU are selling in a box. Therefore, so far as the buyer is concerned, that time, YOUR time, is not worth anything. If you, as a seller, insist your time is worth being compensated for while boxing the item, I suggest writing it off as a tax deduction and see what happens. How do you suppose the IRS would feel about your free enterprising theory? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[Prowler573 5,000+ posts]

This isn't rocket science, you dont get paid an hourly fee to put the item YOU are selling in a box. Therefore, so far as the buyer is concerned, that time, YOUR time, is not worth anything. If you, as a seller, insist your time is worth being compensated for while boxing the item, I suggest writing it off as a tax deduction and see what happens. How do you suppose the IRS would feel about your free enterprising theory? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Why not? Almost every online vendor charges a Shipping & Handling fee which gets tacked on above the actual cost of the item being shipped and handled. Oddly I do not see anyone up in arms about those fees - they simply pay them and go on about their business.

I'm not so naive to believe that the TOTAL S&H charge is the entirety of the actual postage to get that package from its point of origin to wherever you are and I don't get the impression that you're an overly naive or uninformed fella either.

Amazon charges S&H for most things purchased through them.

The various ShopAtHome TV channels charge S&H on most items.

The list of examples could potentially go on endlessly.

One more time - I do not in any way believe the exhorbitant nature of the OP's seller's fees were reasonable. Not one bit. But handling fees being tacked onto shipping fees is the nature of the beast nowadays. And what is that handling fee paying for? Certainly not only the materials used to package the *whatever* but I should imagine there is some percentage of that factored in for their time.

So - I stand by my position whether you agree with me or not. EVERYONE'S time is valuable. Is it as valuble as the OP's eBay seller thinks it is? No, I can't say I agree with that dude's valuation methods, but to say that as a seller your time is worthless is more than a bit silly IMO.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Why not? Almost every online vendor charges a Shipping & Handling fee which gets tacked on above the actual cost of the item being shipped and handled. Oddly I do not see anyone up in arms about those fees - they simply pay them and go on about their business.I'm not so naive to believe that the TOTAL S&H charge is the entirety of the actual postage to get that package from its point of origin to wherever you are and I don't get the impression that you're an overly naive or uninformed fella either.

Amazon charges S&H for most things purchased through them.

The various ShopAtHome TV channels charge S&H on most items.

The list of examples could potentially go on endlessly.

One more time - I do not in any way believe the exhorbitant nature of the OP's seller's fees were reasonable. Not one bit. But handling fees being tacked onto shipping fees is the nature of the beast nowadays. And what is that handling fee paying for? Certainly not only the materials used to package the *whatever* but I should imagine there is some percentage of that factored in for their time.

So - I stand by my position whether you agree with me or not. EVERYONE'S time is valuable. Is it as valuble as the OP's eBay seller thinks it is? No, I can't say I agree with that dude's valuation methods, but to say that as a seller your time is worthless is more than a bit silly IMO.

Its silly? Hmm okay. So the next time you sell something, I dare you to explain, in the item description, that you expect that buyer to pay you a wage to package YOUR item that YOU are selling. Then lets see who is told their position is silly. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Your S&H examples are all businesses, selling new products, paying employees to package these products. If you become your own business and do enough volume to start needing to pay empoyees (thats called overhead) then I'll be MUCH more understanding of paying you to 'handle' the package (wow that sounds gay lol). But we aren't talking about a business who is paying an employee to work, we are talking about a private individual selling his private property. You are not at work, Amazon's employees are. Thats why some labor in this world is considered 'overhead' and some isn't. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

When you buy a used car, does the seller also get a fee for his time/money/expenses for listing the ad in the paper/magazine? No, that would be ridiculous, but you would certainly pay a fee if you purchased that same used car from a [professional] car lot. Different situations.

Lastly, Im not accusing you of siding with the OP's seller, or his fees. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[tmoney 10+ year member]

u all making valid points.