DSP units and questions regarding their use and my system

[PittViper 10+ year member]

Hi,

I am only running front sound stage components, and a 12"sub.

Must you have a rear channel to make use of DSP? I was looking at the kicker front row, but I know very little about signal processing.

My guess is that dsp units wont do anything if there is not rear channels being used.

PS, for those who have helped me with my issues before, many thanks. I almost have the $$$ to complete the project!!

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[fasfocus00 5,000+ posts]

the kicker front row is not a true DSP, it's just a active crossover network. a true DSP will have time alignment capability, active crossovers, full EQ curve adjustment for each channel. depending on your head unit you can likely achieve what you're trying to do with no outside signal processing.

 

[bbeljefe]

You don't need rear channel to use a DSP. In fact, rear fill is not desirable at all for a "proper" sound stage setup.

The typical goal with music reproduction is make the sound system disappear acoustically to the point that the sound you hear mimics that which you would hear in a live venue. Since in a live venue there are no musicians behind you, there is no need for speakers behind you. While it's true that there are sounds coming from behind, those sound are reflected off the back of the venue and are delayed naturally.

In the end, a well designed and setup front stage will provide you with all the rear fill necessary and adding anything to that will only serve to color the sound.

 

[i2ain2thunder 10+ year member]

Jumping in the thread with my own question. I'm not really familiar with time alignment settings. I have the availability to adjust via my Eclipse deck, but I've never done so before. I have 2 settings I can set a time adjustment up or down .1, and I can set db level +-1 or more. Is there any general concepts for these settings. Is it common place to time delay the rear fill? stick to - settings over + settings, like just about every thing else in audio? I know just do what sounds best, but I always like to understand the concept of a feature before I use and try to tune with it. There may be some common advice like if you adjust EQ its better to cut than boost generally speaking although the concept is to fix both peaks and valleys, or that it's better to cut narrow and boost wide.

 

[fasfocus00 5,000+ posts]

you can delay the rear fill if you want an echo effect. all the rest of your question about time delay can be found on google.

 

[PittViper 10+ year member]

From what I've read so far, it would seem you can obtain a well setup soundstage without rear fill.

I also learned that the Front Row is not a dsp at all. dsp involves time adjustment.

Now, to my next question, what are good recommendations for an affordably priced dsp that will achieve what has been said above.

All of you advice is great, and I thank you to keep it coming.

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

From what I've read so far, it would seem you can obtain a well setup soundstage without rear fill.
I also learned that the Front Row is not a dsp at all. dsp involves time adjustment.

Now, to my next question, what are good recommendations for an affordably priced dsp that will achieve what has been said above.

All of you advice is great, and I thank you to keep it coming.

JBL MS-8s can be had brand new of amazon for a good price.. If you did add a rear channel, they can process that to simulate a larger venue by adding delay and echo style sounds. It can also make a true center channel if you car has one. If not, it can set time alignment for you and does EQ work for you as well. You put on what looks like a set of heaphones, but it's actaully microphones at each ear and follow the onscreen prompts. It does all the tuning in a matter of seconds If you have no tuning experience, it will do a better job than you likely will unless you spent a while on it (think hours of tweaking and learning to tune) and most other options are more expensive.

It's a good starter unit to get into the world of DSP's.. It's only downside is the processing often takes away too much of the midbass. You have a 31 band eq and bass controls though you can use to fix the sound some and it does do a lot of the harder technical things right, you jsut have to finish it up by ear.

 

[Roland 10+ year member]

Unfortunately DSP's don't come cheep.

The DEH-80Prs headunit is probably the cheapest way to get a fairly good DSP with time alignment AND left and right independant 16 band EQ.

Since the the goal of a DSP is optimum tunability to achieve pinpoint soundstage (in front of you), and life like tonal reproduction. The better the DSP the better the results CAN be.

IMO The equipment is about only about 25% of the equation, you also have to know how to tune the DSP, and results can vary greatly. A skilled tuner can make a 80prs sound pretty darn good, were i alone couldn't make a $1000 dsp sound near as good.

I do wonder how the new cheaper PPI DSP-88r will perform. It's substantially cheaper than any other stand-alone DSP's, it looks like it could be a good entry level choice.