Do they even make good amps anymore?

[n2audio 5,000+ posts]

It would be a pretty rare 10 to actually be able to produce usable output at or even near 20hz (and rare music to contain 20hz material). Generally, if you can get a 10 to get down to 40 or so before falling on its face you have a quality sub and a good box.

Freq. response specs of most subs are vague at best. Unless it's given as +/-XdB @ 20-200hz (or something similar) it really doesn't mean anything. Plus, the enclosure has a lot to do with frequency response which is another reason that spec doesn't mean much.

FWIW - your old amps weren't class A (rare). They were A/B (typical). Maybe that's what you meant, but there's a BIG difference.

 

[oldskool79]

It would be a pretty rare 10 to actually be able to produce usable output at or even near 20hz (and rare music to contain 20hz material). Generally, if you can get a 10 to get down to 40 or so before falling on its face you have a quality sub and a good box.Freq. response specs of most subs are vague at best. Unless it's given as +/-XdB @ 20-200hz (or something similar) it really doesn't mean anything. Plus, the enclosure has a lot to do with frequency response which is another reason that spec doesn't mean much.

FWIW - your old amps weren't class A (rare). They were A/B (typical). Maybe that's what you meant, but there's a BIG difference.

I bought them in 2001 on a closeout. Up until then, I had never even heard of a class A/B amp. You could be right. When did they start flooding the market with A/B amps?

 

[adulbrich 5,000+ posts]

Without getting too technical, A/B amps basically have favorable characteristics of both class A and B amps. Good sound quality for the price too.

D is really efficient. Many will argue if the sound quality is different.

 

[oldskool79]

Without getting too technical, A/B amps basically have favorable characteristics of both class A and B amps. Good sound quality for the price too.
D is really efficient. Many will argue if the sound quality is different.

I do know the difference between the different types of amps, and I'll admit it's been at least a couple of years (maybe even longer) since I've had a side by side comparison between the A/B and the D, but there was definitely an audible difference then, especially from about 500 Hz up. I do understand there has been some definite changes in the class D amps since, however.

When I first started buying audio amps it was pretty much class A all the way. I had never heard of an A/B amp until the last several years. About what year did they start flooding the market with class A/B?

 

[n2audio 5,000+ posts]

Class D became popular around 2000. Before that, there was very little debate on amplifier class because almost everything was class a/b dating back to the early 80's. Before that, car amps of any kind were pretty rare and generally cost prohibitive.

Class A (tube) amps are horribly inefficient, large, run very hot, draw a ton of current, and don't produce much power. They were used for home and commercial audio mainly because that's all that was available. From the time amplifiers were invented up until the late 60's they were the only option. That's when transistor amps were developed, and about 10 yrs later were largely responsible for the explosion of the 12v audio market. Then, a few years later, some one determined to bring home audio SQ to the car decided to build a class A amp for 12v. Milbert was the first to do it, and a few others followed suit -- Butler and Planet Audio off the top of my head - surely a few others I'm not thinking of. They were NEVER common and NEVER inexpensive. For a short time in the mid-late 80's you were a true SQ purist if you had a class A amp in your car. But again, the inefficiency and general impracticality made them short lived.

Besides, class A car audio amps weren't really class A. They were class A/B's that were built to operate as a class A more than a regular class a/b. It's called bias, and they were "high 'A'" biased a/b's.

It's highly unlikely you were running or dealing with class A's at all.

I've been dabbling in car audio since about 1990 and never personally seen a tube amp. There's a butler td750 on ebay right now for $450. It's 75x2.

 

[PPI_GUY 10+ year member]

oldskool79, check your private messages.

 

[SuperScrilla]

Op there are some extremely well knowldged people on here. It seems to me from reading this thread there is a lot of things you don't know and a lot of the things you think you know are wrong. I'd start asking a lot more questions about every thing and take a look into the other forums here and just read.

I mean this all with the best of intentions and no disrepect. I used to think like you it wasn't until I actually started researching that I found out everything I thought I knew in caraudio was wrong and I started learning how things really are

Anyway good luck with your build op

 

[gckless 5,000+ posts]

Class A is not synonymous with tube components.

 

[n2audio 5,000+ posts]

clearly it's debatable what is and isn't "class A". What little reading I've done is that SS class A's are just A/B's that operate as class A at low power levels.

That may be wrong - it's beside the point.

What's not debatable is they're rare, expensive, ridiculously impractical and generally only used by the huge budget SQ geeks.

My only point is it's highly unlikely OP's amps were class A.

 

[adulbrich 5,000+ posts]

clearly it's debatable what is and isn't "class A". What little reading I've done is that SS class A's are just A/B's that operate as class A at low power levels.That may be wrong - it's beside the point.

What's not debatable is they're rare, expensive, ridiculously impractical and generally only used by the huge budget SQ geeks.

My only point is it's highly unlikely OP's amps were class A.

Not all class A's are tube amps. Not all tube amps are class A (some are actually A/B).

Tube amps can be class a.

The OP could have a class A amp, and it not have tubes. It would have to be really old school though

 

[oldskool79]

Op there are some extremely well knowldged people on here. It seems to me from reading this thread there is a lot of things you don't know and a lot of the things you think you know are wrong. I'd start asking a lot more questions about every thing and take a look into the other forums here and just read.
I mean this all with the best of intentions and no disrepect. I used to think like you it wasn't until I actually started researching that I found out everything I thought I knew in caraudio was wrong and I started learning how things really are

Anyway good luck with your build op

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif After reading some of the material I've read over the last few days, I know you're right. I know nothing! Haha... I've been out of the loop waaaayy too long. The professionals on here make me //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/blush.gif.99bc659ee2012b7d826165e26fb5eebe.gif!

Really, I'm just looking for a good clean sound system for my daughter's car, with a little oomph on the lows. My budget is only in the $500 to $600 range for the whole setup. I know that's not enough to get what I really want, but...

I already have the front 4 speakers. The head unit I'm looking at costs $180.00, so that only leaves about $320 to $420 for the amp(s), sub(s), and enclosure. What the best I can get with that small of a budget? Any and all serious suggestions would help. Thanks in advance!

 

[adulbrich 5,000+ posts]

I'd do an efficiency setup in a big ported box with a big sub on low power. What kind of music does she listen to?

If you don't have big amps, you won't really need serious electrical upgrades.

You will have to sacrifice a lot of trunk space though

 

[oldskool79]

clearly it's debatable what is and isn't "class A". What little reading I've done is that SS class A's are just A/B's that operate as class A at low power levels.That may be wrong - it's beside the point.

What's not debatable is they're rare, expensive, ridiculously impractical and generally only used by the huge budget SQ geeks.

My only point is it's highly unlikely OP's amps were class A.

My first "real" setup was bought in the mid-'80s. One amp was an Alpine 200 WPC RMS x 2, with a rated THD of

Judging by what I've been reading, they were more than likely the A/B amps. They were just advertised as type A. They would definitely drain a battery. I do know that!//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[n2audio 5,000+ posts]

I also have a daughter in the market for a first car. I expect soon after she'll want me to put some sound in it.

I wouldn't hesitate to use one of the various "budget" (but not junk brands) that are popular ATM.

Hifonics, Power Acoustik, Soundstream, PPI, MB quart etc.

I think any of those are serviceable. The main issue is varying degrees of over-ratedness. Overall quality isn't that bad IMO. Especially for a 2nd/kid car.

A few months ago I put a sub setup in a friend's newer F150. Spent $60 on the amp (Autotek) and $65 on the (mb quart) sub. It sounds decent and he's been really happy with it.

 

[oldskool79]

I'd do an efficiency setup in a big ported box with a big sub on low power. What kind of music does she listen to?
If you don't have big amps, you won't really need serious electrical upgrades.

You will have to sacrifice a lot of trunk space though

I can "probably" get away with getting this:

Soundstream REF5.1000 1000W 5-Channel Class A/B Amplifier : VMInnovations.com

just to start. Is this a good, clean sounding, and reliable amp? I'm thinking the amp is the guts of a system, and you can go up or down on budget after that, right?