Different Amplifier Qualities? Same actual RMS power but different sound?

[amartin_72]

Is it possible that just because an amplifier is of much better quality it sounds "louder" than a less "quality" amp with the same RMS power. Like i have had a kenwood that was rated for 1016 watts RMS so i know it put out at least 700 watts. And we hooked up a JL audio 500/1 and it sounded alot louder, and tighter. This amp couldnt have been phyically pushing more wattage through the subs but yet it seemed louder. Is this all having to do with "damping factor" and "slew rate" cuz thats all they talk abiyut when i go into a zapco or JL shop. maybe it really is important. Like comparing Sony, Power Akoustic, and Kenwood amps to my other friends, Orion, JL, Kicker and Diamond amps they seem to just not have the same "type" of power. Maybe its just in the electrical system and all of that idk. and RCA quality, and Head Unit Quality, But it seems like higher quality amps "sound" louder for the same RMS wattage, not rated RMS wattage, actually when they are both butting out the same RMS i mea. Idk maybe i make no sense. I was just wondering if an Elemental Designs Nine.1 at 1200 Watts RMS would be a major upgrade from my 900w RMS Kenwood. Because i know a 1200 watt JL would blow it out of the water. Is the Nine.1 this "quality" type of power?

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[JimJ 5,000+ posts]

Damping factor with comparable output stages is almost meaningless...the output impedance of most SS amps is so high that it really doesn't matter.

For the comparisons you're talking about, no...I doubt you'll hear any substantial difference. Change the output topology to single ended MOSFETs, on the other hand, and you may notice something //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif Of course, you're sacrificing tons of efficiency and output power to do that, and a SE design even in transistors isn't something that's practical for 12VDC use.

 

[Ctesibius 10+ year member]

Is it possible that just because an amplifier is of much better quality it sounds "louder" than a less "quality" amp with the same RMS power.

No. If the subwoofer is receiving the same voltage and current at it's terminals (the same power), it is going to respond exactly the same no matter what the source.

Is this all having to do with "damping factor" and "slew rate" cuz thats all they talk abiyut when i go into a zapco or JL shop.

Very, very doubtful. Most any amplifier on the market will have adequate DF and slew rate (especially slew rate in subbass frequencies). Those are not factors where "higher is better". It's either "adequate" or "not adequate". For DF, this is ~20. As long as both amps have a DF greater than 20 (and most amps on the market will), then going any higher is NOT going to yield any benefits.

Same with slew rate. If the amplifier has an adequate slew rate for the frequency and power it is providing, going any higher will NOT yield any benefits. And most any amplifier on the market these days WILL have adequate slew rate, especially for such "slow" frequencies as subbass.

My opinion is that any differences you heard were simply power or setup differences. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Ctesibius 10+ year member]

http://www.elitecaraudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=123226

Read. Learn.

 

[amartin_72]

Perhaps it was because the JL has a "Regulated Intelligent Power Supply" and it was producint about 750 watts when the car dropped to 12.5 volts and when the kenwood drops that low it doenst put out any more than the 500/1?

 

[Ctesibius 10+ year member]

Perhaps it was because the JL has a "Regulated Intelligent Power Supply" and it was producint about 750 watts when the car dropped to 12.5 volts and when the kenwood drops that low it doenst put out any more than the 500/1?

That is one possible scenario.

I don't know which Kenwood amp you are talking about...but with a rating of "1016 watts", it almost sounds like that is a peak power number and not an RMS. So the JL could simply have had a power advantage at any voltage.

 

[tRiGgEr 5,000+ posts]

Perhaps it was because the JL has a "Regulated Intelligent Power Supply" and it was producint about 750 watts when the car dropped to 12.5 volts and when the kenwood drops that low it doenst put out any more than the 500/1?

Nope.

Comparing two amps with the same RMS power. Will not yield more output. if they are both putting out the exact amount of power it would be the same.

On the other hand the speakers response could be different.

Take in point my Hifonics and Orion. Same output different response.

 

[Ctesibius 10+ year member]

On the other hand the speakers response could be different.
Take in point my Hifonics and Orion. Same output different response.

If the speaker's response was different, then there was a difference in the output. A speaker is not going to respond differently to the same signal.

 

[tRiGgEr 5,000+ posts]

Power does not = performance.

 

[Ctesibius 10+ year member]

Would you agree that a subwoofer receiving the same power level from two different amplifiers that have inaudible differences in THD+N and frequency response (as most any two amplifiers on the market would) would sound the same on both amplifiers?

 

[tRiGgEr 5,000+ posts]

Would you agree that a subwoofer receiving the same power level from two different amplifiers that have inaudible differences in THD+N and frequency response (as most any two amplifiers on the market would) would sound the same on both amplifiers?

Yes.

But can you explain how a problem like speaker overhang can be cured from swapping out Identical power levels.

Even if amp A was producing less power than amp B, that would mean lower power levels have overhang issues.

Not all Amps are created Equal.

 

[Ctesibius 10+ year member]

But can you explain how a problem like speaker overhang can be cured from swapping out Identical power levels.

Driving the amplifier into high distortion, possibly.

Which is not the amplifiers fault, but the users //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

If power, distortion or frequency response are not drastically (audibly) different, then no difference in sound will be heard.

 

[tRiGgEr 5,000+ posts]

Driving the amplifier into high distortion, possibly.

Which is not the amplifiers fault, but the users //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Nice shot *** monkey.

Do some testing with a Hifonics amp. Then come back and tell me it is my fault. prick.

 

[Ctesibius 10+ year member]

Nice shot *** monkey.
Do some testing with a Hifonics amp. Then come back and tell me it is my fault. prick.

I seem to recall a birthsheet floating around various forums that clearly showed the Hifonics was capable of low distortion levels at around 1000w of output //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

If you drove the amplifier beyond that point, it's not the amplifiers fault.

 

[tRiGgEr 5,000+ posts]

And I clearly recall a bx1500d's bench test results with a ridiculous THD level needed to create 1100 watts.

I love your tactful insults.