Design differences between SQ and SPL woofers?

[FtheNutHuggers]

Obviously not because the small quantity of mids are incapable of producing that much pressure. The lame mids in the automotive industry start off in the mid-upper 80dB range. By the time you climbed to 140dB, it'd take ricockulous amounts of power that the mids just couldn't thermally handle, not to mention mechanical power handling. SQ is recording or live level. Peaks just barely over 105dB. Between 65 and 105dB is where musical instruments commonly reside. When you play above those levels, it has gone beyond the recording level and is not true to the recording. At that point, you just work to maintain linearity half a dB at a time. Recording musicians don't want to listen to reproductions of their recordings above that level, their ear quickly becomes incapable of recognizing the nuances when it's being beaten to death trying to handle the volume. Now with Beats by Dre, we just stupified the next and subsequent generations of headphone listeners. I truly is going to hell in a handbasket.

about the KCG..........they all processed their sound curves to death twice over. They should have a class where no sound processors are allowed. Just passive crossover networks.

 

[SPLC]

Sql ftw

 

[slim2fattycake 10+ year member]

Get into Loud Games. They go full range SPL levels. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[FtheNutHuggers]

That's what I use my Fostex towers for most of the time they are playing..... Dayton DTA1 with a CMoy 18V Grado R1 as a preamp, run off the PS3. Towers each house a single Fostex FE166En full range driver, 35-22kHz, no sub. Um.....turned up....da gun shots cn skurr a cracka.

 

[surreal 10+ year member]

Also remember less power = less distortion. Something like the idea behind a line array.

For what its worth, SQ subs are generally built to exhibit less distortion, have a a flatter/workable response, linearity as mention, and so on.

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

Lots of different perspectives in this thread I guess I'll throw mine in with my experiences as well.. First off... SQ can be loud and often is loud.... Real music is loud unless the artists aren't trying to make it loud. (fancy quiet jazz band in a restaurant for example. However, plently of Jazz bands rock out pretty loud and have amazing drummers and loud trumpets and things of that nature. Any good drummerhitting a snare or cymbal your going to need at least 115db's in the midrange and treble to reproduce that with true accuracy. Just like a tympani drum will test your mid/sub to 120db or more. One thing to keep in mind is RTA flat in a car ALWAYS sounds lifeless on the bass side of things. Not just to basshead teenagers, but in terms of making a bass guitar have a real weight to it and sound liek it does in a larger room you really need to have a 6-12db rise starting at around 60hz on the rta. That means the 120db treble peaks really need at least a 130db go along with it. Really the idea your going to should be able to use an 8 for example in a true SQ system is a bit of a fallacy. Most 8's really will run out of steam before keeping up with truly lifelike volumes.. Most big boys on the SQ circuit used at least 2 12's or 2 15's or an 18 or quite a bit of subwoofer... You really need 1 12 in most vehicles to get the necessary low end. (for anyone who wants to say their 8 tuned at 28hz with no eq has good low end extension, realize it's giving up bandwidth to do and probably isn't loud enough over it's full range to be truly balanced...)

Anyway my car is high end pro audio 8's and compression drivers. Setup in the kicks for good pathlengths, apline h701 for some processing power and 2 fairly loud subs that also have great SQ within their alignment. The AV15hs (my subs) actually beat almost every other sub in the 15 shootout on this site.. Even the most SPL oriented woofers that were tested werent as loud within the power limits of the AV.... I'm using 2 with about 1500 watts on tap.. However, the enclosure uses passive radiators and is tuned at 25hz. The very low q of the woofers makes for a natural amost sealed box type of response but with very little excursion hence very low distortion... Point is the car can do

140's on Jeezy songs, put out a lighter and move some hair around 30hz... But still reproduce live instruments when you turn the sub down some... On rap honestly the sub sounds better when it's up the rest of the way and the midrange and highs keep up...

 

[ramos 5,000+ posts]

Obviously not because the small quantity of mids are incapable of producing that much pressure. The lame mids in the automotive industry start off in the mid-upper 80dB range. By the time you climbed to 140dB, it'd take ricockulous amounts of power that the mids just couldn't thermally handle, not to mention mechanical power handling. SQ is recording or live level. Peaks just barely over 105dB. Between 65 and 105dB is where musical instruments commonly reside. When you play above those levels, it has gone beyond the recording level and is not true to the recording. At that point, you just work to maintain linearity half a dB at a time. Recording musicians don't want to listen to reproductions of their recordings above that level, their ear quickly becomes incapable of recognizing the nuances when it's being beaten to death trying to handle the volume. Now with Beats by Dre, we just stupified the next and subsequent generations of headphone listeners. I truly is going to hell in a handbasket.
about the KCG..........they all processed their sound curves to death twice over. They should have a class where no sound processors are allowed. Just passive crossover networks.

emma has a passive only class, but nothing this side of the pond //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif

 

[ramos 5,000+ posts]

People have to remember SQ vehicles are not full RMS by any means. So if you want any sort of loudness, true SQ isn't to be had. Imo, neither are suited for daily. I'm young and restless, I don't want to listen at my music at 126 db's. I want 140's+. I don't think there is a system, in it's SQ setup, that is going to be that loud.

you would be surprised. two world champion sq trucks come to mind. Steve cook competes in Meca with his avalanche. His truck is scary loud, and Dave Brooks competed in pretty much anything he could with his f250 harley edition. That truck will play louder than you would want to subject your ears to for long at all. it did a 133.2db in meca driveby, running his sq comp tune...... SQ can be loud //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

What make you say that?

Ported in a small low tuned box the 9515 sound fine up to about 1kw of input.. They actually sound excellent in transmission lines too..

I've shocked people with 9515s 3.25cubes tuned to 30 sounds **** nice but the do seem a but dry..

The 9500 are actually designed with low inductance low mass and extremely rigid cones..

The only killer on the 9515 is it's spider pack that's not very linear..

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

you would be surprised. two world champion sq trucks come to mind. Steve cook competes in Meca with his avalanche. His truck is scary loud, and Dave Brooks competed in pretty much anything he could with his f250 harley edition. That truck will play louder than you would want to subject your ears to for long at all. it did a 133.2db in meca driveby, running his sq comp tune...... SQ can be loud //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

I couldn't agree more..sq can be loud it just cost out the ***..

I want to double my highs and mids it's not a big deal seeing as t/a helps out alot..

It's all about placement and using the proper alignment..

I have some Cdt hd 6x9s but I'm getting another pair of es6s and es02s..

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Usually when SQueers talk about SQ and being loud as incompatible, they are referring to the human ear losing its ability to discern subtle nuances in the material as the volume level increases. There is truth in that, but its not exactly true to imply anything above a certain db level cannot be considered a quality sound.

When talking about the equipment side of "SQL" (loud SQ), issues like multiple point sources, power compression, and thermal saturation are usually the culprit. Technology can overcome, or at least minimize, some of those problems, but not all of them.

 

[TheUnderFighter 10+ year member]

a lot of interesting info in here guys, thanks a lot! And I hope this has been as helpful for others as it has been for me.

 

[FtheNutHuggers]

Liken the ear to a microphone, it is one. It converts pressure into extremely low voltage signals to whatever squiggly noodle or lobe in the brain that tells us one thing or another. That microphone has an operational bandwidth and different sensitivity all along that bandwidth. When the high sensitivity bandwidth (considered and labeled "midrange") reaches a certain point, you effectively CLIP the microphone. This is how SQL becomes subjective. To me, you could have a perfect sounding system all the way to 120dB minimum across the board.....but as soon as you measured 121dB anywhere within that midrange passband, my internal microphones clip. That may not happen to another person until....say.....128dB. And it happens for that person at a different frequency range within that midrange passband. A distortion analyzer could be used, but then why would it be called SOUND quality if the human ear is not the judge?

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

This is one of the most useful threads on this forum by the means of defining what SQ is and why there is or isn't SQ at higher volumes. I think I'm safe to say, in most cases, loud and SQ do not mix. Some define SQ as perfectly reproducing the audio that is recorded. If the reproduction of the music is louder than the recording, then it does not accurately reflect how the music was created originally. This is taking a very extremist view on SQ, but this is what I think.

 

[Parker G 10+ year member]

LOL @ this thread