Deadening

[Anthony Collova 10+ year member]

super unbiased here, but if I said I bought Damp pro and said it didnt work, sux, etc...Nobody would believe me, they would assume user error not bad product..But if I get Edead and it works, Im lucky or I would get bashed?? Sounds like nut-hugging to me...Rep is everything and since somebody made a test 4 years ago using stupid simulations, makes 1 that much better then the other??

Edead had a shit reputation lng before the sound deadener showdown came out.

Here is the deal..

Do a search on the forums, for edead failure & ed customer service, then do a search for Second Skin Failure and customer service... I assure you.. The results will be night and day long before the sds existed.

The reaction of the forum members to each given product has nothing to do with nut hugging.

I mean who the fawk would go through that much temp change in ur car...I see soooo many blown DD and AQ subs, yet they are a big forum boner...Blown=Failure..

I think you missed the point of runninghtese products through the oven.

 

[x2o 10+ year member]

Off-topic, but is it possible for me to mix sound deadener types? Like, I did most of my car with FatMat already, now say I buy a different type of deadener, Damplifier Pro, or Dynamat Xtreme, or RAAMat, etc and put it on top of the FatMat, would it give me the same results as if the fatmat weren't there, or would they be better results, or worse?

Just curious, cause I would like to try some of the different types, but well, my car is already done in FatMat and that shit is permanent //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif, lol //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif

Didn't wanna make a new thread, but I searched and found nothing.

What I'm really interested in is the Spectrum Sludge... How would that work on top of fatmat? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif

 

[x2o 10+ year member]

super unbiased here, but if I said I bought Damp pro and said it didnt work, sux, etc...Nobody would believe me, they would assume user error not bad product..But if I get Edead and it works, Im lucky or I would get bashed?? Sounds like nut-hugging to me...Rep is everything and since somebody made a test 4 years ago using stupid simulations, makes 1 that much better then the other?? I mean who the fawk would go through that much temp change in ur car...I see soooo many blown DD and AQ subs, yet they are a big forum boner...Blown=Failure..

Blown does equal Failure, but you have to realize the circumstances these things happen, and the people they happen to..

Realize, the RMS rating on an AQ HDC3 is 1000w. Have you ever seen a thread saying AQ HDC3 blown on 1000w? No, when they blow it's from people that either A) Don't know what they are doing, or the most common problem, B) They're giving it 2500-3000 watts RMS daily, when it is rated at 1000. Yes, it is a conservative rating, but they rate it that way because then when it blows from 3000 watts, it's not a failure, it's expected.

Now, if DJ rated the HDC3's at 3000W, and they blew frequently off of 3000W, then that would be considered a failure.

 

[Rudy 10+ year member]

Off-topic, but is it possible for me to mix sound deadener types? Like, I did most of my car with FatMat already, now say I buy a different type of deadener, Damplifier Pro, or Dynamat Xtreme, or RAAMat, etc and put it on top of the FatMat, would it give me the same results as if the fatmat weren't there, or would they be better results, or worse?
Just curious, cause I would like to try some of the different types, but well, my car is already done in FatMat and that shit is permanent //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif, lol //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif

Didn't wanna make a new thread, but I searched and found nothing.

It's really not a great idea. To work well, the vibration damper needs to be in direct contact with the vibrating panel. You'd also end up attaching a permanent material to the surface of the FatMat, which probably isn't going to be permanent - meaning that if the FatMat fails, you just wasted even more money.

On a hot summer day in FL, you ought to be able to pull that stuff off pretty easily. If not, a heat gun set on low will soften it up enough to get off. Unfortunately you then need to use mineral spirits to clean off the asphalt residue followed by denatured alcohol or something similar to clean up the oily residue left by the mineral spirits. You wouldn't even be close to the first person to remove asphalt from your car.

 

[Rudy 10+ year member]

Blown does equal Failure, but you have to realize the circumstances these things happen, and the people they happen to..
Realize, the RMS rating on an AQ HDC3 is 1000w. Have you ever seen a thread saying AQ HDC3 blown on 1000w? No, when they blow it's from people that either A) Don't know what they are doing, or the most common problem, B) They're giving it 2500-3000 watts RMS daily, when it is rated at 1000. Yes, it is a conservative rating, but they rate it that way because then when it blows from 3000 watts, it's not a failure, it's expected.

Now, if DJ rated the HDC3's at 3000W, and they blew frequently off of 3000W, then that would be considered a failure.

This struck me as a specious analogy as well. I think it was meant to reinforce the idea of user error causing inferior "sound deadeners" to fail.

 

[Anthony Collova 10+ year member]

While your car might not get to 400*F, those high temps can be a somewhat valid indicator of the product's performance.
CLD mat (constrained layer damping) has an optimal operating temp at room temp.

Not exactly true john

CLD mats have an optimal operating temperatrue at what ever range the butyl formula is deisnged to opperate at.

BY stiffening up the adhesive and increasing the heat tolerace, we can increase the optimal operating range to a higher degree that room temperature.

We have over 60 adhesive formulas at our disposal that each have different performance specification depending on the specific goals.

Room temperature happens to be the most common, butcause usualy it is the stating point from which these butyls are formulated, tested and produced.

If we had a cusomter contact us and they wanted to treat an entire fleet of snow plows in alaska, it would be kind of silly to give them a product that was normally used in tractor trailers in south america.

Instead, they would get a specific formula butyl that will be able to maintain a specific gravity and elongation metric for their average temperature.

It is like this..

Take some bubble gum, chew it up, and put it in the freezer..

Gets hard right?

Now put it in the sun, outside for an our.

Gets gooey right?

This is partly because of the slid content, and partly because of the liquid content.

The gum, and your saliva.

Now, mix the gum with.. propylene glycol instead of your saliva and then sitck it inthe freezer.. It will stay more soft that the revious version because the formula has changed..

Still gooey in the sun though...

So if we change the formula for th butyl to meet certain characteristics we can provide a much more effective product for the user.

See what I mean?

 

[x2o 10+ year member]

It's really not a great idea. To work well, the vibration damper needs to be in direct contact with the vibrating panel. You'd also end up attaching a permanent material to the surface of the FatMat, which probably isn't going to be permanent - meaning that if the FatMat fails, you just wasted even more money.
On a hot summer day in FL, you ought to be able to pull that stuff off pretty easily. If not, a heat gun set on low will soften it up enough to get off. Unfortunately you then need to use mineral spirits to clean off the asphalt residue followed by denatured alcohol or something similar to clean up the oily residue left by the mineral spirits. You wouldn't even be close to the first person to remove asphalt from your car.

Obviously I wouldn't be the first person, but I do know how much work it takes, and I don't get how people complain about FatMat falling off, if applied properly, it sticks just as well as anything. Has not fallen from my trunk lid, or rear deck, or anything. I cleaned all surfaces with denatured alcohol and a degreaser prior to application, and it's been holding on for about a year so far, made it through the summer and winter here in FL //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif.

But, for all that work, I'd rather just put on more fatmat. I know it's not the same performance, but that would take a LONG time to remove all the asphault properly, clean and prep the surface, etc, etc.

So, bottom line, stick with the product you start with? What about spectrum?

 

[Anthony Collova 10+ year member]

So, this implies that thicker is better? Explain.


Again, thicker = better damping performance?

How so? VMax outperforms DP in Rudeboy's adhesion timing tests. [if ECA was still up I'd link you to him saying so].

VMax in one bad *** product... But yet..

Thicker (or stronger) foil will consrtain the adheisve better than a thinner foil, which should provide better vibration damping results..

Thickness in adhesive however is a joke.. (for CLVED mats anyway)

ANT

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

super unbiased here, but if I said I bought Damp pro and said it didnt work, sux, etc...Nobody would believe me, they would assume user error not bad product..But if I get Edead and it works, Im lucky or I would get bashed?? Sounds like nut-hugging to me...Rep is everything and since somebody made a test 4 years ago using stupid simulations, makes 1 that much better then the other?? I mean who the fawk would go through that much temp change in ur car...I see soooo many blown DD and AQ subs, yet they are a big forum boner...Blown=Failure..

Some people don't know how to use them. But both DD and AQ are good subs. DD is absolutely top of the line for SPL.

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

See what I mean?

Yes. Good stuff, thanks.

I like to use butyl to seal any air gaps between the basket and the mounting ring for all my drivers. Since I change them more frequently than my underwear....even in very cold weather....I know exactly what you're talking about. I put the rope on inside the house and it's like silly puddy before it goes in the car. Then when I go to remove that cold speaker the shit's like glue! Unbelievable how it changes properties with temperature. I thought about mixing some stuff into it, but didn't know what chemical did what.

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

Thicker (or stronger) foil will constrain the adheisve better than a thinner foil, which should provide better vibration damping results..

Word. Just playing devil's advocate here. I like CLD products, but to use them everywhere for 97 different applications is silly to me.

Thing about aluminum foil is that it's super strong longitudinally (like if you try to tear it end to end) but super wimpy horizontally (you can crumple a large sheet into a tiny little ball because it has no strength in the folding dimension). Not sure of that makes sense.

So, if you REALLY want to constrain a VE layer, put something very rigid on the back of it (ie how Green Glue is used commercially as a constraining layer between stiff structures). Just how my brain thinks about these things. I really need to stop thinking so much.......//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif

Thickness in adhesive however is a joke.. (for CLVED mats anyway)

Thank you!

 

[kentb 10+ year member]

if you are on a budget, get FATMAT period, if you have a litttle bit more money get raamat, if you have alot of money get secondskin damplifier pro

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

if you are on a budget, get FATMAT period, if you have a litttle bit more money get raamat, if you have alot of money get secondskin damplifier pro

A rusty chainsaw blade through my front teeth would probably be less painful than reading this. Sigh.............

 

[Anthony Collova 10+ year member]

if you are on a budget, get FATMAT period, if you have a litttle bit more money get raamat, if you have alot of money get secondskin damplifier pro

Along this line of thinking, skip the fat mat, and layer duct tape, or even paper mache' in your car. Super cheap and you can do 20 layers for waht it would normally cost you to use a real vibration damper!!

 

[Rudy 10+ year member]

A rusty chainsaw blade through my front teeth would probably be less painful than reading this. Sigh.............

I know what you mean. Even if an argument could be made for this stuff, advocating paying someone extra to stencil a logo on Peel & Seal completely boggles my mind. I've asked the owner of FatMat, on other forums, to explain how FatMat was different in any way from Peel & Seal (other than the logo) and he refused to answer. You'd think it would be easy enough for a guy who runs a roofing supply business that is authorized to sell Peel & Seal to come up with at least one tiny difference to hang his hat on.