Clarion Full Digital - Crossover Help

[youdoofus]

I get it, because t it gets tiring on message forums. Like would anyone talk like that in person?

My belief is that if it gets tiring, then just dont respond, ya know? No need for someone to treat others like that? Anyways, lets hope that what audioholic posted helped. I dont know what freqs to suggest, but the slope curve theory mentioned is correct. The steeper the rolloff of the xover will make blending the ranges of each driver more difficult to perfect and the freq points will vary depending on the car itself and even depending on what (or who) you have in the car. A small person will affect the sound less than a big person as they will absorb sound differently. I ran into this running pro audio rigs a lot. An empty auditorium with no sound damping panels will sound very tinny, reflective and harsh. Put 400 people in that same room in a fairly direct path of the hi-pacs and that changes drastically, but the mids in that kind of system are 15"s and pack a bit more punch than a 6.5 or even a pro audio 10", especially when you got 0ver 300 watts going to each driver.

Getting some starting points as to not allow damaging frequencies to get to the wrong speaker and just spending some time in your car making some adjustments out on a country road or a parking lot far away from things as to not be a nuisance is a good path. Test it out with a variety of songs you like to get a happy medium

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

I have no idea about the package but I hope it gets bigger. I hope the ball doesn't get dropped and it falls off the map.

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

Mids are sometimes put out of phase as a sort of time-alignment adjustment and/or to help with phase-shift from the filters.

Im pretty sure that if your having phase issues from xovers you have bigger issues. Lol

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Im pretty sure that if your having phase issues from xovers you have bigger issues. Lol

All crossovers cause phase shift. The steeper the slope, the more phase shift.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

All crossovers cause phase shift. The steeper the slope, the more phase shift.

I know you've been gone for a while so let me bring you up to speed, the rest of us have ignored that illiterate dolt.

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

All crossovers cause phase shift. The steeper the slope, the more phase shift.

If the mids and tweeters are on the same slope....

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

If the mids and tweeters are on the same slope....

I thought your stance was that crossovers should cause no phase issues...? If your system consists of nothing but mids and tweeters, and they blend properly at the same slope, then by all means knock yourself out. But your previous statement implies you do not understand phase issues caused by filtering.

 

[Jackers]

Thanks everyone who provided some help to a new guy. My system is sounding much tighter now. If you have an opportunity to hear the new Clarion stuff, please let me know what you think. Personally, I couldn't be happier. The sound quality is outstanding!

Thanks again!

 

[trumpet 5,000+ posts]

I tried to find what type of crossovers Clarion has opted to use in the DSP. If the 4th order crossover is Linkwitz-Riley then the target for alignment at the crossing frequency is to sum flat.

Linkwitz-Riley Crossovers: A Primer

A summary of the characteristics of a Linkwitz-Riley crossover:1. Absolutely flat amplitude response throughout the passband with a steep 24 dB/octave rolloff rate after the crossover point.

2. The acoustic sum of the two driver responses is unity at crossover. (Amplitude response of each is -6 dB at crossover, i.e., there is no peaking in the summed acoustic output.)

3. Zero phase difference between drivers at crossover. (Lobing error equals zero, i.e., no tilt to the polar radiation pattern.) In addition, the phase difference of zero degrees through crossover places the lobe of the summed acoustic output on axis at all frequencies.

4. The low pass and high pass outputs are everywhere in phase. (This guarantees symmetry of the polar response about the crossover point.)

5. All drivers are always wired the same (in phase).

If Clarion programmed it to use a different alignment, such as Butterworth, the above information is not relevant to the discussion.

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

I thought your stance was that crossovers should cause no phase issues...? If your system consists of nothing but mids and tweeters, and they blend properly at the same slope, then by all means knock yourself out. But your previous statement implies you do not understand phase issues caused by filtering.

Lol. Im long past phaseing issues. Unless you are using different slopes tgere is no issue. I perfer lower order slops passive because of the highly inductave/reactive load the xover persents. Id never use a 6 bd and 12 db octave slope and reverse the phase of the mid.

Not to mention its a hell of alot more than just changing polarity when you are dealing with reactive/inductave loads.

Onlys thing i MIGHT SUGGEST is a 4th order tweeter slope with a 2nd order mid slope.

As far as digital xovers they have setback as well.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Lol. Im long past phaseing issues. Unless you are using different slopes tgere is no issue. I perfer lower order slops passive because of the highly inductave/reactive load the xover persents. Id never use a 6 bd and 12 db octave slope and reverse the phase of the mid.Not to mention its a hell of alot more than just changing polarity when you are dealing with reactive/inductave loads.

Onlys thing i MIGHT SUGGEST is a 4th order tweeter slope with a 2nd order mid slope.

As far as digital xovers they have setback as well.

Nobody is past phasing issues. There is no set perfect slope setting for all drivers, nor do all environments offer the same perceived frequency response. Your comments sound like you are back peddling. Let it go.

 

[youdoofus]

Nobody is past phasing issues. There is no set perfect slope setting for all drivers, nor do all environments offer the same perceived frequency response. Your comments sound like you are back peddling. Let it go.

you must not be familiar with papermaker, he does stuff like this all the time. Kinda surprised that he hasnt gona all aggro yet