Change the way you think about speakers with unreal accuracy

[FtheNutHuggers]

There is a manufacturer that was playing with variable gap "technology" if you want to call it that. It takes disassembling the sub though, so it would only be useful to guys that want to play with stuff. You know, the guys who froth at the mouth and drool over speakers, boom and the hopes of shooting a phone cam video of some chick reluctantly being 1/2 of a hair trick. Anything that is "variable" is predestined to be amongst the highest in return ratios and complaints and tech-line clogging.

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

Using a 4" coil in a street beat type of woofer really doesn't benefit anyone..

With 3kw and a tune around you need around 25mm Xmax for it to remains linear..

For the added weight of the coil you need a larger topplate at least 20mm so that makes your winding length 70mm that coil will weight near 350 grams alone plus the cone your looking at 550+ grams..

That's about 2x what a 3" coil driver weights..

Ideally aftr about 30mm xmax overhangs benefits deminish..

That where Xbl and underhung come in.. Now underhung is costly but it has alot of benefits..

Like lower mass over stroke excellent linear stroke.. When you look at those super high power designs a 4" coil underhung even a 1/2" winding length with 8 layers can handle 3kw..

Granted you have a 3" topplate but using neo magnets it's totally feasible..

You could still design such a woofer for 650-750 a peace..

Adding the suspension system will cost another 200 or so tops as it won't take a ton of modification from the regular baskets..

So when it's all said and done your talking some of the dd 9500 series output but with very low distortion even up to the woofers limits..

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

DC Lvl6 is about 110lb sub below 30hz FS that can handle just over 7,000w of actual power continuously.

Calling bullshit on this unles by "continuous" you mean 20 to 30 seconds. There simply is no voice coil that is capable of withstanding that much heat for very long.

So OP has some sort of electromagnetic suspension system which would require a ton of proprietary stuff (including amplifier). Good luck with that, you definitely will want to market something like that to the 5000$ RCA cable crowd.

I don't see being able to modify compliance as very useful since you would then need to swap out boxes as well. For that much work I may as well just have different sets of subs built up for either application. I can use whatever amp I choose, the subs I'd swap will be less cost, and I can recone them with readily available parts.

Cool to do it just to say you did it, but OP hasn't sold me on the usefulness of this over other solutions

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

You wouldn't have to change boxes just tuning..

unless you varied it greatly.

Spiders break down ESP the larger ones..

Again it's hard to get the required cms on high throw high power drivers and having a linear kms curve..

It would be A high output high throw design required by people who like to have a ton of output with little space or someone who is just sick and wants to blow Thier window with music..

 

[Moble Enclosurs 10+ year member]

You wouldn't have to change boxes just tuning..unless you varied it greatly.

Spiders break down ESP the larger ones..

Again it's hard to get the required cms on high throw high power drivers and having a linear kms curve..

It would be A high output high throw design required by people who like to have a ton of output with little space or someone who is just sick and wants to blow Thier window with music..

Tuning is one of the minor relationships with response in an enclosure. In fact, tuning has no significance to the frequency response at all...mostly for electrical/mechanical responses. And as for ESP, are you referring to the perception of sound? Because I thought ESP was a type of loudspeaker, lol. And perception, if that is what you are referring to, is not from loudspeaker parameters. It comes from the listeners parameters. Just trying to understand what your saying.

I have heard and know of sensory perception, but not called ESP. Could have missed that term, lol.

 

[Moble Enclosurs 10+ year member]

It is also my understanding that changing this type of parameter from the drivers perspective will likely cause adverse effects of the propagation of the enclosures resonances, and possible cancellation, because tuning (if it were a major effect) comes from the resonance matching of the enclosures dimensions and physical interior construction, and from what I design, is not based on a single frequency, but more directed towards phase matching and coupling of the drivers response with the enclosures response, because the enclosure has it's own response curve without the drivers operation.....as anything that causes resonances will. That is what ultimately decides the response you will hear in the end. SO, not changing the physical design of the enclosure would be against the drivers ability to change its parameters, as the drivers parameters are directly controlled by the enclosure once installed, and the TS parameters change as well. loading a driver will create a different environment than when they are measured for in the first place, which is why people say the TS parameters can be incorrect....because in most cases, they are.

It would be like trying to push jello through a pipe of the same size, with the same pressure as water at the same speed or faster....in that sense, the density will cause changes alone just by changing the parameters of the materials, just like compression in the enclosure acts as such, which unlike tuning, IS a major factor in response curves....and that is the overall goal.

The way I am seeing it is, based on the purpose of the enclosure, I see it having affects that are likely not yet accounted for, but that doesn't mean do not test it by all means. Either it will be a great success, or a learned failure to become better later down the road...you really cannot lose off of a design idea. Just pointing out some physical and acoustics problems that may exist. This, by the way, should be taken as constructive and looked at in the overall design idea as precautionary. Im not putting the design down, again I should say, just adding some info that may need to be looked at. That is what a forum is for right?

SO, consider those ideas in the design, and if they become null, then that is great!

 

[ChevyRidinLow]

Calling bullshit on this unles by "continuous" you mean 20 to 30 seconds. There simply is no voice coil that is capable of withstanding that much heat for very long.  

So OP has some sort of electromagnetic suspension system which would require a ton of proprietary stuff (including amplifier). Good luck with that, you definitely will want to market something like that to the 5000$ RCA cable crowd.

I don't see being able to modify compliance as very useful since you would then need to swap out boxes as well. For that much work I may as well just have different sets of subs built up for either application. I can use whatever amp I choose, the subs I'd swap will be less cost, and I can recone them with readily available parts.

Cool to do it just to say you did it, but OP hasn't sold me on the usefulness of this over other solutions

but but but but....my ss xxx says 10k continuous power!?!?! what exactly are you insinuating sir? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/up2something.gif.dd110ecf3ae4b76050d87598f2f8de7c.gif

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

So you telling me raising the tuning from 30hz to 40 hz won't make a drastic difference?

 

[Team TH (Donny) 10+ year member]

It is also my understanding that changing this type of parameter from the drivers perspective will likely cause adverse effects of the propagation of the enclosures resonances, and possible cancellation, because tuning (if it were a major effect) comes from the resonance matching of the enclosures dimensions and physical interior construction, and from what I design, is not based on a single frequency, but more directed towards phase matching and coupling of the drivers response with the enclosures response, because the enclosure has it's own response curve without the drivers operation.....as anything that causes resonances will. That is what ultimately decides the response you will hear in the end. SO, not changing the physical design of the enclosure would be against the drivers ability to change its parameters, as the drivers parameters are directly controlled by the enclosure once installed, and the TS parameters change as well. loading a driver will create a different environment than when they are measured for in the first place, which is why people say the TS parameters can be incorrect....because in most cases, they are.
It would be like trying to push jello through a pipe of the same size, with the same pressure as water at the same speed or faster....in that sense, the density will cause changes alone just by changing the parameters of the materials, just like compression in the enclosure acts as such, which unlike tuning, IS a major factor in response curves....and that is the overall goal.

The way I am seeing it is, based on the purpose of the enclosure, I see it having affects that are likely not yet accounted for, but that doesn't mean do not test it by all means. Either it will be a great success, or a learned failure to become better later down the road...you really cannot lose off of a design idea. Just pointing out some physical and acoustics problems that may exist. This, by the way, should be taken as constructive and looked at in the overall design idea as precautionary. Im not putting the design down, again I should say, just adding some info that may need to be looked at. That is what a forum is for right?

SO, consider those ideas in the design, and if they become null, then that is great!

Very much so. T/S parameters are mostly for a generalization because the environment you will use the driver in will be different from the tests. T/S parameters also change depending on whether the driver will be simply wired parallel or series, however, you may only see a slight change.

 

[Team TH (Donny) 10+ year member]

Most drivers' T/S parameters are tested in series (As far as drivers with dual voice coils).

 

[Moble Enclosurs 10+ year member]

Most drivers' T/S parameters are tested in series (As far as drivers with dual voice coils).

Also, in an 8 ohm testing level, believe it or not. Even if they are not 8 ohm drivers. They do this for efficiency ratings mainly. SO, they may rate a driver at say, nominal 8 ohms, but it may be somewhere more like 4.2ohms or something. Pretty inaccurate if you ask me.

 

[Moble Enclosurs 10+ year member]

So you telling me raising the tuning from 30hz to 40 hz won't make a drastic difference?

I'm telling you tuning is not something to base a design off of. It should be based on impedance matching and coupling. Tuning has a minor connection to this as well does Fs(which is what some people believe they have to make the cutoff for tuning at). And as far as a drastic difference, it really depends on the design goal. If the design goal is for SPL only, and the design is a standard ported design idea(constant port area with standard compression chamber, and most band-pass ideas), then this will have a reasonable affect. But, this is the exact reason why I came here....to help people like you understand that the design is much more complex than tuning, if you want to do it right. As a matter of fact, Transmission line enclosures are not even "tuned" if done the right way (and not the quarter-wave length path alone).

So, tuning has minimal effects, like I mentioned before, in the larger spectrum of enclosure design.

 

[CL1CKCLACK 5,000+ posts]

Papermaker, are you some kind of gay philosophers? all you do is sit around and think about stupid stuff, then try to get on the forums to start a fight about it.

 

[terra 5,000+ posts]

I know they have people out there smarter than me if I give too much info I'm scared they take what I designed..I would love to discuss how it works but I cant..

Actually a simple NDA with anybody you choose to discuss with would solve that problem.

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

;7734600']Papermaker' date=' are you some kind of gay philosophers? all you do is sit around and think about stupid stuff, then try to get on the forums to start a fight about it.[/quote']
You nailed it Lmfao...