Car audio horn discussion

[adulbrich 5,000+ posts]

Well, I was thinking about using the JBL 2440 drivers in my front stage. They just need $17 diaphragms. I've done a bit of research on the concept of horn use in audio, but I am still a novice.

The 2440's have a metal adapter in between the driver and the large flared fiberglass horn. I see a lot of car audio horns mounted in the "knee panel"

That seems to go against my prior belief that your high frequencies should be coming from higher up for a good sound stage. My previous belief was that tweeters should be mounted high and wide, like the lower A pillar either on or off axis

Why are horns mounted so low?

I have also seen tweeters mounted in the dash pointed up at the windshield to disperse sound. I was thinking about mounting the 2440's like this because it would be the easiest. I have plenty of space in my dash after gutting things. Should I buy new horns for these drivers?

I'd really like to use them. They're super beefy with a 4" voice coil on the diaphragm. The drivers are solid steel with a neo ring. I have the amplifier and headunit capability to adjust phase and frequency rolloff. These would be coupled with 4 sundown neopro 8' in the doors.

Suggestions/advice?

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[wew lad 5,000+ posts]

processing, mostly TA is what solves for it not being in the dash above you. eq also helps, well an eq is absolutely necessary for horns unless you want your ears to bleed lol

i doubt you'll fit that in the dash man but if i tell you that you'll try until it works and waste a lot of time so just think it through. those are made to be listened to from 50 ft away, not in your face.

save them for your house or something, i ran those big *** horns i had for sale a few months back on my bench with like .5w for a few weeks it was fun lol

 

[adulbrich 5,000+ posts]

Gotcha, would make a loud home audio setup.

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

You want to avoid any refraction and reflection if at all possible. I recommend that you aim the tweeters at something soft if not at your face as long as its not aiming at anything hard/reflective..

sound stage/image comes from each channel hitting your ears at exactly the correct time.

its a good idea to have the tweeters high to help the height of the recording but as long as they are aimed correctly at your ears it usually works fine even low. horns have different dispersion patterns. most horns that aren't round have a narrow dispersion pattern similar to its mouths shape..

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

on axis is best. Firing up to the windshield or firing off axis like that is the worst in most installs. Creates harsh peaks and loses upper detail sparkle aka bad roll off after 12khz. You only do those if you have an advanced parametric EQ in the more advanced DSPs. But still its not the optimal method of loading tweeters.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

The axis is tweeter dependent. Some do very well firing straight across at each other. Makes for a very smooth roll off.

Tweeters on axis is horrible without paragraphic EQ to roll them off. They will melt your face.

The imaging of high frequency is intensity more then timing.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Gotcha, would make a loud home audio setup.

They're for like an auditorium.

I don't think you'll make them sound good in a vehicle.

 

[adulbrich 5,000+ posts]

You want to avoid any refraction and reflection if at all possible. I recommend that you aim the tweeters at something soft if not at your face as long as its not aiming at anything hard/reflective.. sound stage/image comes from each channel hitting your ears at exactly the correct time.

its a good idea to have the tweeters high to help the height of the recording but as long as they are aimed correctly at your ears it usually works fine even low. horns have different dispersion patterns. most horns that aren't round have a narrow dispersion pattern similar to its mouths shape..

on axis is best. Firing up to the windshield or firing off axis like that is the worst in most installs. Creates harsh peaks and loses upper detail sparkle aka bad roll off after 12khz. You only do those if you have an advanced parametric EQ in the more advanced DSPs. But still its not the optimal method of loading tweeters.

The axis is tweeter dependent. Some do very well firing straight across at each other. Makes for a very smooth roll off.Tweeters on axis is horrible without paragraphic EQ to roll them off. They will melt your face.

The imaging of high frequency is intensity more then timing.

They're for like an auditorium.
I don't think you'll make them sound good in a vehicle.

Ok, so general consensus is for me to NOT use these for my front stage. Got it!

Never mind then, lol. I'll just keep the tweets I have or get two more if need be.

Thanks for the replies everyone. Probably saved me some time and effort trying to get them to work. Like I said, I have limited knowledge on horns, and really tweets n general.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Ok, so general consensus is for me to NOT use these for my front stage. Got it!
Never mind then, lol. I'll just keep the tweets I have or get two more if need be.

Thanks for the replies everyone. Probably saved me some time and effort trying to get them to work. Like I said, I have limited knowledge on horns, and really tweets n general.

I'd try to restore those cabinets and try them out. Would totally have value to garage band or small time DJ. Test them out and see, but AFAIK those PA horns are designed to propagate over a long distance.... good at 20+ feet away, painful (not in the good way) up close... likely poor without some EQ and x-over tweaking.

Those old school ID car horns were designed to work in the space of a car and even they are pretty tough to fit under the dash.

 

[adulbrich 5,000+ posts]

I'd try to restore those cabinets and try them out. Would totally have value to garage band or small time DJ. Test them out and see, but AFAIK those PA horns are designed to propagate over a long distance.... good at 20+ feet away, painful (not in the good way) up close... likely poor without some EQ and x-over tweaking.
Those old school ID car horns were designed to work in the space of a car and even they are pretty tough to fit under the dash.

Ok, so they're probably not useful for any setup I would have, car audio or home audio. Guess I'll see if I can flip the stuff then

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Ok, so they're probably not useful for any setup I would have, car audio or home audio. Guess I'll see if I can flip the stuff then

Think stadium or concert hall. Only use I'd see in a pickup would be outside if you needed sound for a beach party or similar large open area. Like I said, restore, test, make up your own mind. If you ever lived around Brazilians you'd have a whole different outlook on PA horns in cars....those guys lost us a couple venues where we used to have bass events, they are really obnoxious.

 

[adulbrich 5,000+ posts]

Think stadium or concert hall. Only use I'd see in a pickup would be outside if you needed sound for a beach party or similar large open area. Like I said, restore, test, make up your own mind. If you ever lived around Brazilians you'd have a whole different outlook on PA horns in cars....those guys lost us a couple venues where we used to have bass events, they are really obnoxious.

Yeah, $16 a piece for diaphragms isn't bad. I guess I'll see how they sound

 

[BMayes36]

Would be good for a backyard setup for parties and what not.

 

[adulbrich 5,000+ posts]

I'm sure the neighbors would appreciate it //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

 

[wew lad 5,000+ posts]

Think stadium or concert hall. Only use I'd see in a pickup would be outside if you needed sound for a beach party or similar large open area. Like I said, restore, test, make up your own mind. If you ever lived around Brazilians you'd have a whole different outlook on PA horns in cars....those guys lost us a couple venues where we used to have bass events, they are really obnoxious.

yeah SBN is ruined as soon as one of them starts playing music. 50 ft away and im plugging my ears from pain. not good musical pain, just pain.