Car audio horn discussion


adulbrich

Lock up your daughters!
May 11, 2014
14,015
0
Ames, Iowa
Well, I was thinking about using the JBL 2440 drivers in my front stage. They just need $17 diaphragms. I've done a bit of research on the concept of horn use in audio, but I am still a novice.

The 2440's have a metal adapter in between the driver and the large flared fiberglass horn. I see a lot of car audio horns mounted in the "knee panel"



That seems to go against my prior belief that your high frequencies should be coming from higher up for a good sound stage. My previous belief was that tweeters should be mounted high and wide, like the lower A pillar either on or off axis



Why are horns mounted so low?

I have also seen tweeters mounted in the dash pointed up at the windshield to disperse sound. I was thinking about mounting the 2440's like this because it would be the easiest. I have plenty of space in my dash after gutting things. Should I buy new horns for these drivers?



I'd really like to use them. They're super beefy with a 4" voice coil on the diaphragm. The drivers are solid steel with a neo ring. I have the amplifier and headunit capability to adjust phase and frequency rolloff. These would be coupled with 4 sundown neopro 8' in the doors.

Suggestions/advice?



 

wew lad

wew lad inc
Mar 22, 2015
5,806
77
MA
processing, mostly TA is what solves for it not being in the dash above you. eq also helps, well an eq is absolutely necessary for horns unless you want your ears to bleed lol

i doubt you'll fit that in the dash man but if i tell you that you'll try until it works and waste a lot of time so just think it through. those are made to be listened to from 50 ft away, not in your face.

save them for your house or something, i ran those big *** horns i had for sale a few months back on my bench with like .5w for a few weeks it was fun lol

 

Papermaker85

Banned
Dec 15, 2006
13,746
26
New orleans LA
You want to avoid any refraction and reflection if at all possible. I recommend that you aim the tweeters at something soft if not at your face as long as its not aiming at anything hard/reflective..

sound stage/image comes from each channel hitting your ears at exactly the correct time.

its a good idea to have the tweeters high to help the height of the recording but as long as they are aimed correctly at your ears it usually works fine even low. horns have different dispersion patterns. most horns that aren't round have a narrow dispersion pattern similar to its mouths shape..

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Jeffdachef

Gunz That Turn on Nunz
Feb 5, 2013
17,262
252
South Coast Metro, CA
on axis is best. Firing up to the windshield or firing off axis like that is the worst in most installs. Creates harsh peaks and loses upper detail sparkle aka bad roll off after 12khz. You only do those if you have an advanced parametric EQ in the more advanced DSPs. But still its not the optimal method of loading tweeters.

 

LosIsATool

CarAudio.com Veteran
Apr 7, 2011
18,504
68
Pensacola, Florida
The axis is tweeter dependent. Some do very well firing straight across at each other. Makes for a very smooth roll off.

Tweeters on axis is horrible without paragraphic EQ to roll them off. They will melt your face.

The imaging of high frequency is intensity more then timing.

 
OP
adulbrich

adulbrich

Lock up your daughters!
May 11, 2014
14,015
0
Ames, Iowa
You want to avoid any refraction and reflection if at all possible. I recommend that you aim the tweeters at something soft if not at your face as long as its not aiming at anything hard/reflective.. sound stage/image comes from each channel hitting your ears at exactly the correct time.

its a good idea to have the tweeters high to help the height of the recording but as long as they are aimed correctly at your ears it usually works fine even low. horns have different dispersion patterns. most horns that aren't round have a narrow dispersion pattern similar to its mouths shape..
on axis is best. Firing up to the windshield or firing off axis like that is the worst in most installs. Creates harsh peaks and loses upper detail sparkle aka bad roll off after 12khz. You only do those if you have an advanced parametric EQ in the more advanced DSPs. But still its not the optimal method of loading tweeters.
The axis is tweeter dependent. Some do very well firing straight across at each other. Makes for a very smooth roll off.Tweeters on axis is horrible without paragraphic EQ to roll them off. They will melt your face.

The imaging of high frequency is intensity more then timing.
They're for like an auditorium.
I don't think you'll make them sound good in a vehicle.
Ok, so general consensus is for me to NOT use these for my front stage. Got it!

Never mind then, lol. I'll just keep the tweets I have or get two more if need be.

Thanks for the replies everyone. Probably saved me some time and effort trying to get them to work. Like I said, I have limited knowledge on horns, and really tweets n general.

 

hispls

CarAudio.com Veteran
Sep 10, 2009
10,725
221
Cape Cod, Massachusetts
Ok, so general consensus is for me to NOT use these for my front stage. Got it!
Never mind then, lol. I'll just keep the tweets I have or get two more if need be.

Thanks for the replies everyone. Probably saved me some time and effort trying to get them to work. Like I said, I have limited knowledge on horns, and really tweets n general.
I'd try to restore those cabinets and try them out. Would totally have value to garage band or small time DJ. Test them out and see, but AFAIK those PA horns are designed to propagate over a long distance.... good at 20+ feet away, painful (not in the good way) up close... likely poor without some EQ and x-over tweaking.

Those old school ID car horns were designed to work in the space of a car and even they are pretty tough to fit under the dash.

 
OP
adulbrich

adulbrich

Lock up your daughters!
May 11, 2014
14,015
0
Ames, Iowa
I'd try to restore those cabinets and try them out. Would totally have value to garage band or small time DJ. Test them out and see, but AFAIK those PA horns are designed to propagate over a long distance.... good at 20+ feet away, painful (not in the good way) up close... likely poor without some EQ and x-over tweaking.
Those old school ID car horns were designed to work in the space of a car and even they are pretty tough to fit under the dash.
Ok, so they're probably not useful for any setup I would have, car audio or home audio. Guess I'll see if I can flip the stuff then

 

hispls

CarAudio.com Veteran
Sep 10, 2009
10,725
221
Cape Cod, Massachusetts
Ok, so they're probably not useful for any setup I would have, car audio or home audio. Guess I'll see if I can flip the stuff then
Think stadium or concert hall. Only use I'd see in a pickup would be outside if you needed sound for a beach party or similar large open area. Like I said, restore, test, make up your own mind. If you ever lived around Brazilians you'd have a whole different outlook on PA horns in cars....those guys lost us a couple venues where we used to have bass events, they are really obnoxious.

 
OP
adulbrich

adulbrich

Lock up your daughters!
May 11, 2014
14,015
0
Ames, Iowa
Think stadium or concert hall. Only use I'd see in a pickup would be outside if you needed sound for a beach party or similar large open area. Like I said, restore, test, make up your own mind. If you ever lived around Brazilians you'd have a whole different outlook on PA horns in cars....those guys lost us a couple venues where we used to have bass events, they are really obnoxious.
Yeah, $16 a piece for diaphragms isn't bad. I guess I'll see how they sound

 
OP
adulbrich

adulbrich

Lock up your daughters!
May 11, 2014
14,015
0
Ames, Iowa
I'm sure the neighbors would appreciate it //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

 

wew lad

wew lad inc
Mar 22, 2015
5,806
77
MA
Think stadium or concert hall. Only use I'd see in a pickup would be outside if you needed sound for a beach party or similar large open area. Like I said, restore, test, make up your own mind. If you ever lived around Brazilians you'd have a whole different outlook on PA horns in cars....those guys lost us a couple venues where we used to have bass events, they are really obnoxious.
yeah SBN is ruined as soon as one of them starts playing music. 50 ft away and im plugging my ears from pain. not good musical pain, just pain.

 

The Camry

Hey, I Try.
Sep 22, 2013
2,991
1
Western Oregon
Well, I was thinking about using the JBL 2440 drivers in my front stage. They just need $17 diaphragms. I've done a bit of research on the concept of horn use in audio, but I am still a novice.
The 2440's have a metal adapter in between the driver and the large flared fiberglass horn. I see a lot of car audio horns mounted in the "knee panel"



That seems to go against my prior belief that your high frequencies should be coming from higher up for a good sound stage. My previous belief was that tweeters should be mounted high and wide, like the lower A pillar either on or off axis



Why are horns mounted so low?

I have also seen tweeters mounted in the dash pointed up at the windshield to disperse sound. I was thinking about mounting the 2440's like this because it would be the easiest. I have plenty of space in my dash after gutting things. Should I buy new horns for these drivers?



I'd really like to use them. They're super beefy with a 4" voice coil on the diaphragm. The drivers are solid steel with a neo ring. I have the amplifier and headunit capability to adjust phase and frequency rolloff. These would be coupled with 4 sundown neopro 8' in the doors.

Suggestions/advice?

Look at the hlcd section on diyma. The guy who basically invented horns and makes horns still for cars is on there amd very helpful

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

 

The Camry

Hey, I Try.
Sep 22, 2013
2,991
1
Western Oregon
There are mini horns now available as well. The guys on diyma are running two way sets. A big *** 8 or 10 for 50-800 and a mini horn for 800+

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

 
OP
adulbrich

adulbrich

Lock up your daughters!
May 11, 2014
14,015
0
Ames, Iowa
Look at the hlcd section on diyma. The guy who basically invented horns and makes horns still for cars is on there amd very helpful
Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk
Alright, cool. Thanks, I'll check it out

 

hispls

CarAudio.com Veteran
Sep 10, 2009
10,725
221
Cape Cod, Massachusetts
yeah SBN is ruined as soon as one of them starts playing music. 50 ft away and im plugging my ears from pain. not good musical pain, just pain.
That's about the size of it.

There are mini horns now available as well. The guys on diyma are running two way sets. A big *** 8 or 10 for 50-800 and a mini horn for 800+
Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk
Link?

 

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