Capacitors? Where's the proof?

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

We definitely need a different sticky for caps.

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

That magic technology he is referring to are all those events/thresholds he doesn't know the name or value of.

Probably because they're imaginary. I thought most nutjobs had names for their imaginary friends...

 

[RAM_Designs 5,000+ posts]

We definitely need a different sticky for caps.

Agreed.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

I think we need an IP check. The more I read his gibberish, the more I think we are just being trolled.

 

[roarzorz 10+ year member]

Lulz at newb getting all super cereal in the cap thread.

 

[LiveAudio911 10+ year member]

here you bother to contradict yourself.. giving an example of hypocrisy.
one post says they arent patient.. another post says they are patient.. i think it is you who is ruining the sticky.

Dude, you idiot.. those are my words you are miss-quoting.. FAIL... Whos the flamer now?

 

[nateberrier 10+ year member]

I'm a feggot flamer now? I like men? I run a Boss Cap and get -9000 internets? mmm babay

U mad bro?

 

[LiveAudio911 10+ year member]

Not really. As Ive said several times now, cap voltage will follow system voltage. The cap wont 'try' to pull voltage, it will merely accept the voltage its given. Once the alt is insufficient to provide all the necessary power, and the cap follows the drop in voltage, the cap wont recharge until the system voltage increases. A few people here keep coming back to the idea that the cap and amp will pull current at the same time. This is fundamentally incorrect. Once voltage drops to 12.8 volts (for example, batt voltage), the cap will remain at 12.8 volts and not draw (or try to draw) current until system voltage is raised. At this point, the draw a cap places on system voltage will simply be that of its internal resistance.
This may sound like Im a proponent of using external caps, but that is not true. Capacity becomes an issue at this point. The cap will drain its stored power very quickly, again to follow the drop in system voltage, and then it merely becomes an added strain on the alt/system voltage (in the form of its ESR). This added drain is not in the form of drawing the power to recharge (as recharging in this example would be to raise its own voltage), but in the form of merely being an added resistance (ESR) to the system that would otherwise not be there.

Lets make this a bit simpler. To 'recharge' the cap would be to raise its voltage back to 14.4. If the amplifier is drawing enough power to lower to lower system voltage to 12.8 (batt voltage), its physically impossible for the cap to recharge to 14.4 volts. It cannot exist at 14.4 volts while the rest of the circuit is still holding at 12.8 volts. So you could say both the amp and cap will try to draw power at the same time, but reality is the cap will not actually pull the power from the alt until the alt has caught up and is raising system voltage above that 12.8.

I see where you are coming from...

But once the voltage does increase... the cap is going to pull what ever power it can in to equalize it self with the rest of the circuit.. pulling in what ever it can.. so always having a demand on the system for as long as it is not recharged.. That was my point at any rate.. by the time someone spent the money to have enough of these POS's to actually do any good they could have just upgraded a battery or put a second battery in..

 

[LiveAudio911 10+ year member]

U mad at me bro for not calling last night? I want you, me and bottle of oil tonight

HA HA HA HA! nah.. I'm not mad.. and thats funny Shit right there..

 

[nateberrier 10+ year member]

HA HA HA HA! nah.. I'm not mad.. and thats funny Shit right there..

Bro, this is like 6 pages of lame. and if you think youre gonna get in my pants, there is a waiting list, sorry. also if you use the color black you can swear without making your post look dumb. Audioholic is a bit more intelligent than you. give up because you wont win and nobody is on your side.

 

[LiveAudio911 10+ year member]

Bro, this is like 6 pages of lame. and if you think youre gonna get in my pants, there is a waiting list, sorry. also if you use the color black you can swear without making your post look dumb. Audioholic is a bit more intelligent than you. give up because you wont win and nobody is on your side.

Meh.. I only posted a few times and the one comment that I incorrectly stated was acknowledged.. so ROFL @ you

This tread does need a new sticky...

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

I see where you are coming from...
But once the voltage does increase... the cap is going to pull what ever power it can in to equalize it self with the rest of the circuit.. pulling in what ever it can.. so always having a demand on the system for as long as it is not recharged.. That was my point at any rate.. by the time someone spent the money to have enough of these POS's to actually do any good they could have just upgraded a battery or put a second battery in..

The cap will pull what it can, that is true. But system voltage will demand what it can pull. The system voltage will only rebound once the current draw (from the amp) subsides. When looking at the actual draw the cap places on the circuit, the ESR is the main draw on the system when excess current is not available. ESR really is the key factor. Richard Clark's entire negativity on caps supporting an insufficient power supply revolves around ESR, and he's exactly correct. In a perfect world where resistance does not exist, a cap would be nothing but a benefit. But resistance is real, and a cap simply adds resistance.

Im glad you dont take my disagreement as a flame. Advancement in understanding comes from respectful disagreements, and I think you show that very well.

 

[LiveAudio911 10+ year member]

The cap will pull what it can, that is true. But system voltage will demand what it can pull. The system voltage will only rebound once the current draw (from the amp) subsides. When looking at the actual draw the cap places on the circuit, the ESR is the main draw on the system when excess current is not available. ESR really is the key factor. Richard Clark's entire negativity on caps supporting an insufficient power supply revolves around ESR, and he's exactly correct. In a perfect world where resistance does not exist, a cap would be nothing but a benefit. But resistance is real, and a cap simply adds resistance.
Im glad you dont take my disagreement as a flame. Advancement in understanding comes from respectful disagreements, and I think you show that very well.

Na... I agree with what your saying completely.. I have seen for my self in the past.. you can often achieve a few .xx volt's better with out the cap.. due to less resistance..

 

[LiveAudio911 10+ year member]

The cap will pull what it can, that is true. But system voltage will demand what it can pull. The system voltage will only rebound once the current draw (from the amp) subsides. When looking at the actual draw the cap places on the circuit, the ESR is the main draw on the system when excess current is not available. ESR really is the key factor. Richard Clark's entire negativity on caps supporting an insufficient power supply revolves around ESR, and he's exactly correct. In a perfect world where resistance does not exist, a cap would be nothing but a benefit. But resistance is real, and a cap simply adds resistance.
Im glad you dont take my disagreement as a flame. Advancement in understanding comes from respectful disagreements, and I think you show that very well.

Na... I agree with what your saying completely.. I have seen for my self in the past.. you can often achieve a few .xx volt's better with out the cap.. due to less resistance..

 

[PaulD 10+ year member]

just wow, this thread is a minefield. I feel sorry for anyone reading this thread that truly does NOT understand how caps work. I guess ca.com hasn't changed much over the years