Bonified, Certified High Quality Amps

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

lmfao... ill stick to my highend amps with superior parts, just as any one looking for the same results... ill be selling my 100.4 very soon be kind and take it off my hands..

 

[Ctesibius 10+ year member]

The fact remains that they don't have to be "exotic" for a difference to be heard. I never suggested that was necessary to begin with. I've never suggested that for any difference to be heard, the amplifier had to be X amount of power or had to cost X amount of dollars or be made by X company. In fact I've tried to be as vague as possible to simply state the fact that amplifiers can and do sound different solely for the sake of arguing the point that all amplifiers sound the same.

No, they don't have to be exotic. And being exotic doesn't necessarily indicate that an audible difference will be heard either.

But my point was more to the context to which this thread applies to many of the specifics you've mentioned. Of the specifics you've mentioned thus far was the current source vs voltage source and difficult load drivers. Ignoring specifics of the sound debate for a moment....In the context of this forum (car audio)....how many current source amplifiers are there to make this comparison in our cars? How many difficult load speakers are there? How many 8 or 9 watt tube amps are there? How many 12 component amps are available for car audio? Virtually none. So bringing those up in this thread is like bringing up Ford vs Chevy. It's completely off topic to the context in which the topic should be discussed. How many Nelson Pass zero feedback style amps are available for car audio? So why does he or his products apply to this thread? We can't buy one of his amps and throw it in my car. None of it applies to the products we have available. We have run-of-the-mill solid state amps where the main differences in sound are either going to come from frequency response anomolies which can be adjusted with EQ or unacceptable levels of distortion or noise which is indicative of either an amplifier not worth owning or that's broken.

 

[dB-r 10+ year member]

You have such a passion for SQ that I think you in your spare time should startup a little outfit either selling/giving away schematics and parts lists for designs for those who are as passionate about SQ as you are, or perhaps even build a few and sell them so other people can experience it. Just my $0.02. Not arguing with you a bit anymore, SQ is it's own game inside of the Car Audio world which is primarily not SQ oriented at this time.

 

[JimJ 5,000+ posts]

It's completely off topic to the context in which the topic should be discussed

We do have a home audio section here //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

I agree that it's a little too wide in scope when talking about strictly 12V audio, but sometimes, those generalizations can hurt...every time someone posts a "capacitors are worthless" reply, I wonder if they're ever going to get corrected some day by someone else in a different field of electronics...because he didn't stop to realize that that statement is concerning one narrow application of electrolytics.

 

[dB-r 10+ year member]

LOL, really. I honestly didn't know that (about the home audio section at caraudio.com...) LOL...

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

so you would rather have an amp that has a sn of 90,dpf of 150 channel seperation of 50 the @ rated power of 1%. vs an amp wit much better atributes? seriously?

 

[JimJ 5,000+ posts]

LOL, really. I honestly didn't know that (about the home audio section at caraudio.com...) LOL...

Most of it's about 7.1 home-theater-in-box systems and how to ghetto-rig 12V stuff to use at home, but I can dream, can't I?

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

so you would rather have an amp that has a sn of 90,dpf of 150 channel seperation of 50 the @ rated power of 1%. vs an amp wit much better atributes? seriously? i promise you at full volume no clipping i CAN hear a difference.. im not arguing some time has proven... look at ANY highly acclaimed sq car... what are they running??

 

[Ctesibius 10+ year member]

so you would rather have an amp that has a sn of 90,dpf of 150 channel seperation of 50 the @ rated power of 1%. vs an amp wit much better atributes? seriously?

To be honest, I couldn't even tell you what the DF, SNR or channel separation of my amplifiers are as I know they will be sufficient enough to be inaudible. I honestly do not even take those parameters into consideration when looking at car audio amplifiers. In any amplifier worth owning that was competently designed (and not designed to intentionally have those factors cause an audible difference), those factors won't be audible.

i promise you at full volume no clipping i CAN hear a difference..

Highly doubtful. And to be quite honest, I don't believe you (not that it probably matters much).

I think there might have been a guy offering $10k if you can prove it.....what was his name again? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

im not arguing some time has proven... look at ANY highly acclaimed sq car... what are they running??

There is so much more going on inside a highly acclaimed SQ car than the amplifiers that this statement is laughable at best.

It's also interesting how many of those high acclaimed builders/owners of those highly acclaimed SQ cars will tell you how unimportant the "sound quality" of an amplifier is once certain parameters are met (flat response, no audible noise, etc). Scott Buwalda, Mark Eldridge, etc.....oh yeah, and that one guy who owns the winningest car of all time, still regarded as one of the best sounding cars of all time, same guy who offers the $10k, what is his name!? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

Poor example.....very, very poor example you have there good sir.

 

[Ctesibius 10+ year member]

We do have a home audio section here //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

It should be relabeled "HTIB" //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

I agree that it's a little too wide in scope when talking about strictly 12V audio, but sometimes, those generalizations can hurt...every time someone posts a "capacitors are worthless" reply,

It's amazing how many amplifiers won't work right without them //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eek.gif.771b7a90cf45cabdc554ff1121c21c4a.gif

 

[blueangle 10+ year member]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/cool.gif.3bcaf8f141236c00f8044d07150e34f7.gif

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

in reply o not know slew rate DF etc... many people say that anything above 200 is plenty, but one thing i CAN say is that under demanding loads your GOING to hear a difference.. simply put not all amplification is the same. the signal to noise, ratio channel seperation etc can be very apparent at high output levels.. not to mention cheap parts can be very inacurate with high tolerances.. making the built in xovers etc.. much harder to tune.. poor designs that don't use isolated power/swiching supplys/grounds can easily introduce noise. such designs are much much prone to externally introduced noise that is associated with other compenonts like EQs xovers etc.... given a linear THD DF SN etc... a watt is a watt.. and frankly at moderate output levels(via the amps abilitly) its extremely hard to hear the differences, but as power/voulme increases (IE amplification) it is definitally noticable.... RCs test is impossible to win. because its a totaly fail at what a normal application is..

 

[dB-r 10+ year member]

My opinion of the whole SQ thing comes down to this. If the source doesn't sound good, then accurate reproduction of that source will not sound good either. Too much going on in todays music.. sounds like a bunch of car alarms and cell phones ringing to me... What's with all the background noise in todays music? I realise that back in the mid 90's when poor people could finally afford cell phones, all the rap music that came out had cell phone ringtones as part of the looped beats in the background because they thought it was "cool" or "pimp" or whatever, but why is it that NOW still people are making music that sounds like 50 cell phones ringing in the background.... I think people who make the beats and loops need to really chill out and keep it simple... hard to distinguish any good sounding system from another with all that garbage in the back ground and a lot of it is MONO so channel seperation and stuff doesn't even matter.

Most people like the sound of tube amps. If they don't know what they are listening to, and you switch them from a solid state to a tube amp they like the sound of the tube amp better, which is funny because most of them are like 10% THD if I remember right... LOL...

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

good amps use better parts.. for instance 90% of the 4 channel amps on hte markets output varies 5-10% same with the xovers etc.. this is whats audible.. its the abilitly to tweek the system that much more to get the absolute best xover settings closests output ratios proper amount of delay.. most SQ comps only require you to put it to a certain output, while someone who enjoys loud music experence totally differet types of problems... sure i cna take a power acoustic amp defeat the xovers get aton of head room a great xover/eq and make it sound fine for normal listening levels like that required in a great sounding system, but thats where there is a huge difference.. take for example matllicas ONE.. starts off with very little information... right of the bat i can tell you if you have a good SN/ ratio/channel seperation.. tell me i can't hear adifference under clipping ill tell you ill prove it.. alot of material even rap now in days is recorded with excellent equipment.. anyting else will add distortion...

 

[dB-r 10+ year member]

LOL, not implying rap music is for SQ.... Just a point about the source. Todays rock music (if you want to call it that) is too busy too... way too much cymbal and drums are too busy. And the distortion from the guitars in the back ground could probably fry your tweeters quickly... even if setup properly and a robust tweeter...