Are 8's the new 12's?

[ibanender 10+ year member]

First, quote me saying in this thread, or absolutely anywhere, that subs in the same line have exactly the same parts. I never did, its impossible, you are a broken record.
Second, Im not saying 'as a result of' the cone size going up, Fs goes down. Im saying that it does. Ive said numerous times now that I didn't fully comprehend why. Yet here you are, acting as if Im pretending to be some expert on the subject, and berating me for it. Again, broken record buddy, and not even accurate.

You didn't say they have the same parts, but you are comparing sizes, and you can't make a fair comparison unless there is 1 variable, which there is not. Anybody who knows anything about scientific research knows that for accurate results you can only change 1 variable at a time. You change more than 1 variable, your results are null.

Yes, nice reasoning. The environment changes it, so why even talk about it. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif If we used that logic, we would never discuss any raw driver data, or enclosure perameter for that matter. We'd just say what the hell, the environment is gonna change it anyway, who cares. Yes, very well planned out logic there.

You'd be amazed at how much the parameters on paper don't matter. Do you have any idea how many people take a driver, put it in a general box, and it does very well? Are you also aware at how far off mocking programs are from reality? DD doesn't even publish any specs on the 9900 series because it really just doesn't matter. Most manufacturers that DO give you t/s params don't give the params that mean the most to me anyway. Sooooooo, right, the environment is gonna change it anyway, why IS it being discussed?

Again making assumptions about my background. You've already proven you are a miserable failure at it, why do you keep attempting it so?

You havn't proven to me that you know anything on this subject, or car audio as a whole, other than you know how to use a search engine, copy, and paste. I don't see where I've failed at assuming.

Hell, I already admitted I dont fully understand the subject here, and am learning... what do I have to lose? Im just having fun watching you continue to rant on and on about bullshit. Its a nice feeling walking away from a thread being the one who admitted he didnt know and needs/wants to learn, and still not feel like Im the one being the thread's retard. Thankyou for that.

You should try looking in from the outside, I get IM's from people stating how retarded you are. While you are admitting you don't know about the subject, you aren't listening to the reason why either. It doesnt matter what I say because you won't listen to it. Just like Hoss said, you can't teach those who aren't willing to learn. There have been 2 other people in this thread offering the same explanation and you choose to ignore it.

 

[ibanender 10+ year member]

To each their own. I didn't want to have to explaine or appologize to anyone who is listening to my system that "those are only 8's" . Its not like their is a huge difference in cost anyway. I had the money and a 10" of the same brand will dropped just as low but had more output, why not? I'd be lying if I said I'd never heard 8's rock but I've heard the 10's and 12's and no explaining or "take into consideration these are only....." was needed. The system spoke for itself. You build a system to the way you want it or need it. For me 2 12's would never be needed for my tastes. If I had 8's on the other hand I'd be wondering "hmmm what if these where 10's or at least 1 10"? I did alot of searching on this board before I bought the 10" and it seemed like all the guys with 8's always preped you that they were running 8's. Maybe it was my misinterpretation.

Eh, in my case, I never stated what I had but often asked what they thought I had. I've been running a single 8 under the seat of my Sierra for 4 years now and I've heard everything from a single 10 to a pair of 12's. NOBODY has said a single 8 is what they thought I had. In the case of my car when I did SPL with a single 8, people went "146, not bad" then somebody would say "thats a single 8" and people would go "****".

In the case of my truck, I can't do more than a single 8 and do the box and amp how I want to do it. If you have more room, do whatever man. It's easier to get something louder with more cone area.

 

[ibanender 10+ year member]

I don't have the technical skill to fully contribute but from my understanding of the thread, but it seems to me that ibanender is basing his argument off of his experience, whereas audioholic is basing his off literature. Not to say that anything is wrong with either one...It is a waste of space and anger.
I see the same thing on the seeking alpha and other such forums where stock makret junkies debate, argue, etc. about different investing methodologies. Some base their arguments off the calculus while others base thiers off experience. Atleast in car audio, you can repeat tests. In stocks, by simply testing, you affect the test.

You are exactly right. There is plenty of math to be done in calculating different things with audio. Unfortunately, there isn't math (that I'm aware of) to calculate how something will sound when you change the environment. That is where experience comes in, you can have an educated guess on the outcome. I have also found that experience gives better results than a book explaining how, or any degree of math calculations.

 

[negativezeroz 5,000+ posts]

the large and the shakes and the pickles...and the pickles..and the pickles...

Why did Honda have to put a freakin' support bar underneath the stock 8"? Why?! Now I have to make my own mount without messing up the sealing. I will just add more silicone once I get it out I guess..

 

[CBFryman2 5,000+ posts]

I think that mainly comes from an over all lack of cone area (for the system, not individual subs). If someone is running a pair of RE8's in a sealed box, well yeah, dont expect tons of output. I doubt someone with a wall of 8's would give you that line though. Nor someone with a setup like Louisiana CRX's four 8's.

Back when RE 8's where $50 each shipped $400 and 1000w later and you where into the 140's EASY with a nifty system that not many people had.

Tang Bands and Assasins are the new RE 8's. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/naughty.gif.94359f346c0f1259df8038d60b41863e.gif

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

You didn't say they have the same parts, but you are comparing sizes, and you can't make a fair comparison unless there is 1 variable, which there is not. Anybody who knows anything about scientific research knows that for accurate results you can only change 1 variable at a time. You change more than 1 variable, your results are null.

That's why it makes no sense to compare completely different brand and model subs. The point Id made thru the entire thread was when looking at one line of subs, the Fs dropped as cone size went up. THAT is the situation I was speaking about. Yes I understand the compliance issue now, but I didnt then. Are you even gonna get that point?

And if you now admit I didnt say they had the same parts, why did you say: "Now you say you never said they had the same parts in those cases." Again with the 'changing your story' crap that simply isn't true.

You'd be amazed at how much the parameters on paper don't matter. Do you have any idea how many people take a driver, put it in a general box, and it does very well? Are you also aware at how far off mocking programs are from reality? DD doesn't even publish any specs on the 9900 series because it really just doesn't matter. Most manufacturers that DO give you t/s params don't give the params that mean the most to me anyway. Sooooooo, right, the environment is gonna change it anyway, why IS it being discussed?

Right, so lets never speak of raw driver or enclosure perameters again. We'll simply refer to ibanender's vast knowledge base to guide us, that's all that matters. For someone preaching science, you sure have a hit or miss way of applying it.
And I never said mocking programs were accurate. Where have I even mentioned using such programs in this thread? I haven't, you're grasping again. YOU brought up mocking programs when you accused me of being guided by them alone. Just another one of your assumptions gone wrong...

You havn't proven to me that you know anything on this subject, or car audio as a whole, other than you know how to use a search engine, copy, and paste. I don't see where I've failed at assuming.

First off, I dont have to prove those things to you. This is why you've not seen me try. Second, yet another great gem of knowledge from you. Yes, I know nothing at car audio. Brilliant deduction. Ive been installing audio systems in cars since the late 80's, and formal training in the 90's, but Ive never added weights to the spiders on subs to see the reaction to Fs so aparently I have 'no real world experience', Ive 'never built anything or tested it', and Ive 'only really spent time mocking up graphs'. Have I missed any assumptions you've made about me with zero info to back them up? Probably. YOU expect proof? The only proof I see is that you are a lousy guesser. Do I ever expect you to acknowledge that? Of course not. So telling me you don't, doesn't really bother me. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

You should try looking in from the outside, I get IM's from people stating how retarded you are. While you are admitting you don't know about the subject, you aren't listening to the reason why either. It doesnt matter what I say because you won't listen to it. Just like Hoss said, you can't teach those who aren't willing to learn. There have been 2 other people in this thread offering the same explanation and you choose to ignore it.

You are a real piece of work. Ive admitted I didnt understand, Ive admitted you have taught me stuff here, yet you continue on with this 'unwilling to learn' crap. Just another lame attempt to place me in a negative light. Or, are you gonna quote me saying I have disregarded your reasoning? No, you wont, because you can't, because I haven't.
Ive had a person or two try to relate what Ive been saying and my perspective on the conversation to you as well. I guess you've chosen to "ignore" them, as you are accusing me of? Im not unwilling to learn, or admit when Im wrong. Ive done both in this thread. The unwillingness here is on your part, to let things go. Aparently me stating Im no expert and learning here isn't good enough for you. Too bad.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Back when RE 8's where $50 each shipped $400 and 1000w later and you where into the 140's EASY with a nifty system that not many people had.
Tang Bands and Assasins are the new RE 8's. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/naughty.gif.94359f346c0f1259df8038d60b41863e.gif

Yeah Ive seen some pretty impressive array systems. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[ibanender 10+ year member]

the large and the shakes and the pickles...and the pickles..and the pickles...



Why did Honda have to put a freakin' support bar underneath the stock 8"? Why?! Now I have to make my own mount without messing up the sealing. I will just add more silicone once I get it out I guess..

Because its factory and they don't care if you want to change it?

 

[ibanender 10+ year member]

Back when RE 8's where $50 each shipped $400 and 1000w later and you where into the 140's EASY with a nifty system that not many people had.
Tang Bands and Assasins are the new RE 8's. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/naughty.gif.94359f346c0f1259df8038d60b41863e.gif

Tang Bands **** hard, they are quiet and don't sound that great. I havn't tested the Assassins as they were supposed to send us one to test but never did. Honestly, I havn't used another 8 that performs like the RE8 does for the price the RE8 used to go for. FYI, I did 140's with a single RE8, still do, my highest is a 146 so far. It didnt take THAT many of them to do it.

 

[ibanender 10+ year member]

That's why it makes no sense to compare completely different brand and model subs. The point Id made thru the entire thread was when looking at one line of subs, the Fs dropped as cone size went up. THAT is the situation I was speaking about. Yes I understand the compliance issue now, but I didnt then. Are you even gonna get that point?

Well I'm glad to see you've learned something. Does that mean you're gonna quit saying 15" cones play lower than 8" cones?

Right, so lets never speak of raw driver or enclosure perameters again. We'll simply refer to ibanender's vast knowledge base to guide us, that's all that matters. For someone preaching science, you sure have a hit or miss way of applying it.

What's hit or miss about knowing WTF you're doing? I can tell you what to change to achieve a given goal, and I can change something about the installation and tell you what its gonna do in the real world. You can talk about enclosure parameters all you want, that is what really matters.

And I never said mocking programs were accurate. Where have I even mentioned using such programs in this thread? I haven't, you're grasping again. YOU brought up mocking programs when you accused me of being guided by them alone. Just another one of your assumptions gone wrong...

My mistake, with your Fs's and F3's being tossed around like you are, it seemed like you live to plot.

First off, I dont have to prove those things to you. This is why you've not seen me try. Second, yet another great gem of knowledge from you. Yes, I know nothing at car audio. Brilliant deduction. Ive been installing audio systems in cars since the late 80's, and formal training in the 90's, but Ive never added weights to the spiders on subs to see the reaction to Fs so aparently I have 'no real world experience', Ive 'never built anything or tested it', and Ive 'only really spent time mocking up graphs'. Have I missed any assumptions you've made about me with zero info to back them up? Probably. YOU expect proof? The only proof I see is that you are a lousy guesser. Do I ever expect you to acknowledge that? Of course not. So telling me you don't, doesn't really bother me. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

Of course you don't have to prove things to me, you might find yourself learning something. Besides, this is a forum on the internet where you can be whoever you wanna be, and nobody cares, as long as your post count is high. You'd think that if you'd been installing since the late 80's and had all this formal training, you might know something about basic subwoofer design. Maybe you're a shitty installer? You CAN be doing something wrong for 15 years.

You are a real piece of work. Ive admitted I didnt understand, Ive admitted you have taught me stuff here, yet you continue on with this 'unwilling to learn' crap. Just another lame attempt to place me in a negative light. Or, are you gonna quote me saying I have disregarded your reasoning? No, you wont, because you can't, because I haven't.

If you've learned, then why are you still talking?

Ive had a person or two try to relate what Ive been saying and my perspective on the conversation to you as well. I guess you've chosen to "ignore" them, as you are accusing me of? Im not unwilling to learn, or admit when Im wrong. Ive done both in this thread. The unwillingness here is on your part, to let things go. Aparently me stating Im no expert and learning here isn't good enough for you. Too bad.

I guess I was ignoring the others furthering my point too, right?

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Well I'm glad to see you've learned something. Does that mean you're gonna quit saying 15" cones play lower than 8" cones?

Never said they did (for the eleventieth billion time). I was comparing like model subs. For someone who knows t/s perameters, you sure are acting dense about such a simple concept.

What's hit or miss about knowing WTF you're doing? I can tell you what to change to achieve a given goal, and I can change something about the installation and tell you what its gonna do in the real world. You can talk about enclosure parameters all you want, that is what really matters.

The point wasn't specs are the most important, the point was you talk about doing things scientifically, until you decide your experience trumps it.

Of course you don't have to prove things to me, you might find yourself learning something. Besides, this is a forum on the internet where you can be whoever you wanna be, and nobody cares, as long as your post count is high. You'd think that if you'd been installing since the late 80's and had all this formal training, you might know something about basic subwoofer design. Maybe you're a shitty installer? You CAN be doing something wrong for 15 years.

Yet another lame person attack. *yawn* Yes, like I said before, unless Ive added weights to subwoofer spiders and tested the affect on Fs (and F3), I must really be one shitty *** car audio dude. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

If you've learned, then why are you still talking?

If Ive learned, why are YOU continuing? Aparently Im suppose to bow my head low and back out of your presence?

I guess I was ignoring the others furthering my point too, right?

No, you only seem to ignore posts comments and sources that contradict you.

 

[Pl8er 5,000+ posts]

Hi guys! Do you remember me? I started this thread. Yeah, ummm....really I just wanted input on everyones feelings of 8's being today's 12's because of new designs etc.

I'm glad that the two of you are the masters of your own universe though, congrats on that.

If possible, do you think we could just go back to people's opinions or knowledge of what would be lacking in having only 8's or what would be better? I could start another thread called "i'm kind SH*T and this is why" and you two could go crazy in there. Its just getting too hard to actually get information from this thread that I was actually looking for.

 

[80INCHES 5,000+ posts]

he we almost lost u there buddy...lol

i think its great that 8's are displacing almost as much air as most tens on the market

80

 

[Pl8er 5,000+ posts]

Yeah, the message got lost in the battle LOL.

I'm sorta thinking about running an 8 setup. I think I need to make you my best-friend 80 so that I can ask you dozens of questions about box building. I'm really getting interested in making new boxes, trying out some stuff and I just finished a room downstairs (kinda a basement) to start building boxes.

I have a seriously crappy box right now and I want to try out some new designs.

I'm running 10's right now and I want to try out my RE 8's that I got for a really cheap price when they were running that sale a year or so ago.

 

[80INCHES 5,000+ posts]

ok sure no problem

80