Advice for upgrade from 2x SA-8v2's

[gamehawk55 10+ year member]

Hey guys,

I'm eventually looking to upgrade my subs from my 2x SA-8v2 setup to a Dual 12 setup. The 8's are great and they get pretty loud but it takes ALOT of power to get them really loud (1500W+). Also other caveats I have about these subs is that you hear them alot more than you can feel them because they're so small. Also these subs REALLY can't play with authority above 50hz, so any kind of rock/metal where the kick drum resides in the 70-100hz range the bass is very lackluster or sometimes nearly non-existent, even though the output meter on my amp is pounding into clipping territory.

So for my next subs I really want something that can really punch into that 80hz range with authority, but while still being able to dig fairly low with some kind of authority as well. And I really want to FEEL the bass, especially the kick drums when listening to rock/metal.

My first thought was just moving up to a pair of SA-12's, because I've read really good things about them. But do they suffer the same problem as the SA-8v2's do above 50hz? Also I've seen a video of 2 of them on 600w putting out almost as much bass and moving as much air as my 8's do at 1500-2000W

Also moving from the 8's to 2 12's aprox. how much louder will it be and how much harder will it hit?

Sorry for all the questions. I just don't have a ton of money to make changes all the time, so when I do the switch I want to make sure I am not disappointed.

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[Dmac1991]

2 8s is pretty much the equivalent of 1 12.

Throw in another 12 and you can see that 2 12s is considerably louder than 2 8s.

TBH SUBs shouldn't be playing 80-110hz. That's when your midbass/range should be kickin in.

 

[gamehawk55 10+ year member]

TBH SUBs shouldn't be playing 80-110hz. That's when your midbass/range should be kickin in.

I have my LPF at aprox. 80hz currently (tuned with DMM) and there are some metal songs that I've tried that have very little bass output from the subs even though the output meter on my RF T2500 suggests it should be hitting pretty loudly. For example, The Blister Exists - Slipknot, I can hear in the speakers that there should be plenty of kick drum yet I hear none of it in the sub and the output meter on the amp is in the red and moving along with the kicks im hearing from the door speakers. So this suggests that the kick is mostly likely in the 70-80hz region but the subs just aren't playing it properly and it's coming out a muddy mess.

 

[gamehawk55 10+ year member]

That being said if I listen to stuff where the kick is more in the 40-50hz area, then it hits loud and hard and can distinctly hear the kick drum.

 

[gamehawk55 10+ year member]

But anyways, does anyone have any recommendations for 12's? Other than SA-12's? With my current amp I have up to a possible 3500W on tap (RF T2500-1BDCP)

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

But anyways, does anyone have any recommendations for 12's? Other than SA-12's? With my current amp I have up to a possible 3500W on tap (RF T2500-1BDCP)

perfect subs for you would be HDC4, or hdc3, they are pretty darn punchy. Heck even SSA subs do very well with upper bass, my Zcon is in a low tuned enclosure but it still rocks the 80hz range blending nicely with the mids.

 

[disturbed471985 5,000+ posts]

Still one of my favorite 12's I have ever owned... I had the older version "WMD" seems all that has changed is the name and the spiders... - Pierce Audio Products Inc. - Pierce Audio Products Inc.

 

[gamehawk55 10+ year member]

perfect subs for you would be HDC4, or hdc3, they are pretty darn punchy. Heck even SSA subs do very well with upper bass, my Zcon is in a low tuned enclosure but it still rocks the 80hz range blending nicely with the mids.

I heard the HDC3's were good, and they have been on my list of considered drivers, but alot of people still recommended SA-12's over them, said the sundowns did better on the lows and required less power to get loud. Zcon would be nice, but definitely out of my price range since I want to get 2 12's. I really wanna get that hard kick in the chest bass. I know that generally you need 15's or bigger to really get THAT hard of a hit. But considering how hard just my 2 8's can hit sometimes I can only assume certain dual 12 setups could put them to shame. Just need to find that perfect driver //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[gamehawk55 10+ year member]

Still one of my favorite 12's I have ever owned... I had the older version "WMD" seems all that has changed is the name and the spiders... - Pierce Audio Products Inc. - Pierce Audio Products Inc.

Hmm...Never heard of these before. They again I'm from Canada so selection up here is limited unless you import.

 

[disturbed471985 5,000+ posts]

Hmm...Never heard of these before. They again I'm from Canada so selection up here is limited unless you import.

Been around a long long time... Only sub I wish I never of sold... Someone on here now owns it...

 

[gamehawk55 10+ year member]

Been around a long long time... Only sub I wish I never of sold... Someone on here now owns it...

What made it so good?

 

[disturbed471985 5,000+ posts]

Build quality, CS...... ****

 

[gamehawk55 10+ year member]

Wow....That's a big *** fu**in motor for a 12. What version was that though? 1Kw or 2Kw? If it's the 1K then the motor/magnet assembly is now smaller according to the picture on the site...Only 2 stacked magnets on the 1K

 

[disturbed471985 5,000+ posts]

Its a 2k with 4 nomex spiders.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

I heard the HDC3's were good, and they have been on my list of considered drivers, but alot of people still recommended SA-12's over them, said the sundowns did better on the lows and required less power to get loud. Zcon would be nice, but definitely out of my price range since I want to get 2 12's. I really wanna get that hard kick in the chest bass. I know that generally you need 15's or bigger to really get THAT hard of a hit. But considering how hard just my 2 8's can hit sometimes I can only assume certain dual 12 setups could put them to shame. Just need to find that perfect driver //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

several ways to get that kick in the chest bass. Either peak heavily on a certain frequency range, lots of cone area with lots of power, or tune higher and sacrifice some lows.

I'd try to make a 4th order bandpass for your 8s if you want a cheap chest thump solution. Trade off is some "low" lows along with narrower frequency response range

The other solution is to get an 15" or 18" zcon or HDC4, tune around 34-38 hz.

Or stick with your original plan of proceeding to grab and hold onto a pair of sundown's nuts with the SA 12s, Try the same tuning 34-38 hz.

That tuning area along with a big enough enclosure should give you some lows still while extending the bass to the metal/rock section of music. If you want full on metal, old school EDM and rock setup, go for 42 hz in an average sized box(maybe tiny bit bigger).

I've had 2 JL W0 12s back then in 1.5 cubic foot enclosure tuned to 42hz walled off from the trunk firing into the cabin. It was only on 600 watts rms and they actually hit a tiny bit harder on higher hertz metal music(especially in the 60-100 hertz area) then my current Zcon 12". There was a tiny bit of chest thump going on with certain songs but that setup was completely and utterly lacking in lows, it could never hope of matching the Zcon's ability to hit hard on the 25-55hz section lol.