A/B vs Class D for Subwoofer SQ

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So just because nobody as passed the test 100% with 24 correct responses = all amps sound the same? Since he doesnt keep detailed records, what about all the people that may have come close?
And about the one that got 8 correct and they went back and claimed the settings were off:rolleyes:
Richard Clark has said “22 out of 24 would be statistically significant. In fact it would prove that the results were audible. Any AVERAGE score more than 65% would do so. But no one has even done that”.”
* Twelve correct responses in a row is certainly a lot of correct listening but $10,000 is also a lot of money for a few hours of easy listening. The way people describe the differences is that they are like night and day. I would certainly not have any trouble choosing between an apple and an orange 12 times in a row. When compared fairly I believe the differences in amps are much too small to audibly detect and certainly too small to pay large sums of extra money for. If I am wrong someone should be able to carefully take this test and win my money. Even if I am right, if enough people take the test eventually someone will take my money due to random chance. This is the reason for the large sample requirement. If you feel that you can easily pass this test but 12 sequences will give you "listening fatigue" I am willing to modify the requirements. Since the way it is being offered is a challenge and only my money is at risk I am willing to let a confident challenger "put his money where his ears are". If we are willing to make this a bet instead of a challenge, I am willing to drop 1 sequence for every thousand dollars put up by the challenger against my money. This would mean:

My Your Trials required to win

$10,000 $0 12 Tries

$9,000 $1,000 11 Tries

$8,000 $2,000 10 Tries

$7,000 $3,000 9 Tries

$6,000 $4,000 8 Tries

$5,000 $5,000 7 Tries

$4,000 $6,000 6 Tries

I will not do the test with less than 6 trials. It would be statistically meaningless and reduce the challenge to mere gambling.
http://www.tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall/index.htm

 
a simple statement and now I can't read?//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif I have read the FAQs and know the challenge very well .

Then why did you post this?

Stated "Challenge" was with solid state amplifers only.
Do most commercially available amplifiers qualify for this test, even tube amplifiers and class D amplifiers? Yes. Nearly all currently available amplifiers have specs better than what are required for the test. Tube amplifiers generally qualify, as do full range class D amplifiers.

hmmm....so a Butler Tube amp vs. a Pyle amp.....hmmm

Do the results indicate I should buy the cheapest amp? No. You should buy the best amplifier for your purpose. Some of the factors to consider are: reliability, build quality, cooling performance, flexibility, quality of mechanical connections, reputation of manufacturer, special features, size, weight, aesthetics, and cost. Buying the cheapest amplifier will likely get you an unreliable amplifier that is difficult to use and might not have the needed features. The only factor that this test indicates you can ignore is sound quality below clipping.
 
Generally qualify...what makes one tube design not qualify?

as for the Tube vs. Pyle comment....it was just adding fuel to the fire...I didn't know a RC nazi would be here....

 
a simple statement and now I can't read?//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif I have read the FAQs and know the challenge very well....you can now get off of your high horse........

Generally qualify...what makes one tube design not qualify?
Amplifier requirements The amplifiers in the test must be operated within their linear power capacity. Power capacity is defined as clipping or 2% THD 20Hz to 10kHz, whichever is less. This means that if one amplifier has more power (Watts) than the other, the amplifiers will be judged within the power range of the least powerful amplifier .

The levels of both left and right channels will be adjusted to match to within .05 dB. Polarity of connections must be maintained so that the signal is not inverted. Left and Right cannot be reversed. Neither amplifier can exhibit excessive noise. Channel separation of the amps must be at least 30 dB from 20Hz to 20kHz.
You say you've read it, but then you keep posting things that show you havent' read it, so we are left to conclude, you can't read.

From my high horse it's fun to stomp on all these absurd posts, with my nazi boots.

For the record, I'm an amplifier snob. Real amps are made by Crest, Crown and QSC, everything else is a toy, and it ain't about the "sound" quality marketing BS.

amps.jpg


 
So what makes your amps so special? Build quality? Materials used? Not being an *** but what makes you say that your amps are better than another brand?

 
I have been owned by the Richard Clark Nazi, but at least I am man enough to admit I was wrong about the equalization part //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

As for the challenge itself, I'll pass because all I would do is make Richard Clark $200 richer //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif

ETA: Crest Audio makes some rugged equipment. Back in the good old days I ran Peavey amps because they held up better than Crown in my DJ Trailer. I tried QSC and my first amplifier shook itself apart between my house and the first gig that I transported it to //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif When my QSC amp was working, it ran HOT and would thermal on me even in a well ventilated area. Lighter does not always equal better for the mobile DJ.....

 
Hm, amidst all the flaming, there is some good info in this thread! Subscribed //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/veryhappy.gif.fec4fed33b4a1279cf10bdd45a039dae.gif

 
So what makes your amps so special? Build quality? Materials used? Not being an *** but what makes you say that your amps are better than another brand?

Build quality and proven reliablity under the worst conditions. By far the most bullet proof (literally) and dependable amps. Decades of being on the road, dragged thru the mud, bounced around, over driven, over loaded, in blistering heat and still keep working without a hicup.

Serious concert amps.

 
This RC experiement should not have even been brought up in this thread. This thread is about SQ for subs.

The experiment was centered on full range, low power (below clipping), and I agree that it would be hard to tell the difference.

This test does not prove anything specific about subwoofer SQ. Sub amps limited frequency response along with much higher (usually) power output would make differences much easier to hear.

 
This RC experiement should not have even been brought up in this thread. This thread is about SQ for subs.
The experiment was centered on full range, low power (below clipping), and I agree that it would be hard to tell the difference.

This test does not prove anything specific about subwoofer SQ. Sub amps limited frequency response along with much higher (usually) power output would make differences much easier to hear.
You are officially the new King Ranch. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

 
This RC experiement should not have even been brought up in this thread. This thread is about SQ for subs.
The experiment was centered on full range, low power (below clipping), and I agree that it would be hard to tell the difference.

This test does not prove anything specific about subwoofer SQ. Sub amps limited frequency response along with much higher (usually) power output would make differences much easier to hear.
frequency response could be 20-100hz if its flat its perfectly fine as long as your not tring to play above or below.. dampning slew rate and S/n ratio are much more improtant.. and its been proven that a dampning factor in low frequency above 200 is inaudible in its linear range..

while not all class Ds have a DF of 200+@1ohm good ones do.. thats why it can make a difference.. like it was said thought if you keep it in its linear range it will be near impossible to tell the difference in a good quatitly amps..

for instance my RD audio 1750 sounds better than the HIFI brutis 2000d, but comparing it aginst lunar 225x2 bridged @4ohm .i really can't hear a difference.. the lunar has 4x the DF slightly higher S/N etc.. but the 1750 remains linear and very clean..

 
This thread is about SQ for subs.
Ok, so then define that. How do we get the ultimate in "SQ" when it comes to amps. I mean, if you really want to help the OP and stay on topic, then list the conditions needed for such a thing to happen.

This test does not prove anything specific about subwoofer SQ.
Of course it does. It shows ANY amp will work for a sub. RC was THE best thing to happen for amplifier shoppers because he allowed us to see past the manufacturers bullshit (ie Image Dynamics) and choose based on the factors that matter (like what DidYouHearThat? is saying.)

So, in a nutshell, if there IS a sonic difference in amp class you would never know.

 
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