A/B vs Class D for Subwoofer SQ

[DidUHearThat? 10+ year member]

Wow, just wow.
"Yes. Nearly all currently available amplifiers have specs better than what are required for the test. Tube amplifiers generally qualify, as do full range class D amplifiers. It is not clear whether Richard Clark would allow sub amplifiers with a limited frequency response."

Also, how many people run 10kw to thier front stage? Even 1k for that matter?

10,000 watt stereo amps. I ran two of these (crowns) for a few months. To power 32 cabinets of VDOSC line array speakers. L &R mains, just the low mids, actually. Seperate amps for mids and highs.

 

[rc10mike 10+ year member]

You are arguing a pretty moot point as any "sound differences" would only be more difficult to hear in a frequency range where my hearing is worse.
If you are wanting to "prove" that there is some hidden indicator of sound differences in an amplifier other than gain, power, distortion, frequency response and noise it would be beneficial to do it in the region where my hearing is most sensitive.

Fixed

 

[DidUHearThat? 10+ year member]

Fixed

No, clearly your broken.

You've proven you don't understand how amplifiers work.

You've proven you don't understand how RC's challenge works.

You've proven you don't understand how audio works.

Now you've proven you don't understand how human hearing works.

Why do you post here?

You should read more, post less.

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

Fixed

What did you get on the Klippel distortion test? http://www.klippel-listeningtest.de/lt/instructions.html

Go ahead, take it 10 times. Use an "audiophile" headphone amp and a set of $1000 headphones if you want.

I want to see some numbers from you since you insist that the audibility is NOT beyond the human hearing threshold. Enough of your psychosis, time to put something up.

At least then we know you can maybe get past round one with RC. Now, from there you better be REALLY good. Again, the odds are extremely stacked against you. You're more likely to win the lottery and get struck by a meteor in the same day, probably.

 

[rc10mike 10+ year member]

-36db none wrong so far but I have a few beers in me. Im using just V-moda headphones

 

[mcsoul 10+ year member]

10,000 watt stereo amps. I ran two of these (crowns) for a few months. To power 32 cabinets of VDOSC line array speakers. L &R mains, just the low mids, actually. Seperate amps for mids and highs.

How come you don't choose a reliable lower cost brand like QSC or Behringer?

If all that matters is measurable specifications, certainly you could save some

money over Crest and Crown right?

 

[DidUHearThat? 10+ year member]

How come you don't choose a reliable lower cost brand like QSC or Behringer?
If all that matters is measurable specifications, certainly you could save some

money over Crest and Crown right?

Behringer is junk. Crest & Crown are at the top, behringer is at the bottom, of reliablity and build quality (physical rugged construction). Behringer is lowest end DJ gear, not concert grade pro audio.

QSC is good, but for live touring amps, Crown and Crest rule the market. Not just "pretty reliable" but bullet proof reliable.

I see QSC mostly in permanent installs, like theaters.

Live touring sound is almost exclusively Crown & Crest, and now I'm seeing more LabGruben, and built in amps from Meyer or D&B. Very expensive.

Your paying for reliablity and abilty to handle huge variations in impedence swings.

When you have over 100+ drivers hanging in the air for a concert of thousands of people, who paid big money to HEAR the show, you need to know it's going to work.

We're willing to pay for proven reliablity. It's our buisness. Amps, speakers and mixing consoles are serious capital investments. 6-7 figures for a system is common. People who expect to see a profit on their investment buy the good stuff, because the cheaper stuff fails to do the job and winds up in the trash.

 

[gunz4me 10+ year member]

We're willing to pay for proven reliablity. It's our buisness. Amps, speakers and mixing consoles are serious capital investments. 6-7 figures for a system is common. People who expect to see a profit on their investment buy the good stuff, because the cheaper stuff fails to do the job and winds up in the trash.

You aren't lying about that 6 to 7 figures being the norm! I know someone locally who has a production company and his setup cost about $750k and IMHO it isn't all that big. IIRC, it is only 30,000 watts or so and the amps are all Crown. I don't know what speakers he is running because the last time I saw him he was ditching the Community setup that he had claiming it didn't perform well in Louisiana's heat and humidity

 

[Haunz 10+ year member]

Behringer is junk. Crest & Crown are at the top, behringer is at the bottom, of reliablity and build quality (physical rugged construction). Behringer is lowest end DJ gear, not concert grade pro audio.QSC is good, but for live touring amps, Crown and Crest rule the market. Not just "pretty reliable" but bullet proof reliable.

I see QSC mostly in permanent installs, like theaters.

Live touring sound is almost exclusively Crown & Crest, and now I'm seeing more LabGruben, and built in amps from Meyer or D&B. Very expensive.

Your paying for reliablity and abilty to handle huge variations in impedence swings.

When you have over 100+ drivers hanging in the air for a concert of thousands of people, who paid big money to HEAR the show, you need to know it's going to work.

We're willing to pay for proven reliablity. It's our buisness. Amps, speakers and mixing consoles are serious capital investments. 6-7 figures for a system is common. People who expect to see a profit on their investment buy the good stuff, because the cheaper stuff fails to do the job and winds up in the trash.

^ I've ran both crown and behringer and I somewhat disagree.. Crown is definatly top dog, but there is nothing wrong with behringer amps.. not in build quaility or reliability, that I've ever seen anyway..

The only difference IMHO is that the Behringer ratings are a bit optimistic when compaired to some other brands like Crown.. (that and behringer does not make a 10Kw amplifier)

 

[DidUHearThat? 10+ year member]

^ I've ran both crown and behringer and I somewhat disagree.. Crown is definatly top dog, but there is nothing wrong with behringer amps.. not in build quaility or reliability, that I've ever seen anyway..
The only difference IMHO is that the Behringer ratings are a bit optimistic when compaired to some other brands.. (that and behringer does not make a 10Kw amplifier)

Behringer's cannot handle the huge variation is impedence load we deal with. We start the show with a nominal 8, 4 or 2 ohm load, but after you have 100+ drivers heat up after a couple of hours, then you see the men and the boys get seperated. The impedence swings all over the place and cheaper amps can't handle it. They pump up and down in volume, dampening abilty disapears and they start to color the sound, distort, over heat, go into protect mode or just outright fail.

Also you've never opened up the back of a truck and discovered your amp rack fell on it's face in transit, or coming off the ramp, and the transformers broke loose from the circuit boards and pushed thru the face. You open the front of your rack and a cascade of parts falls on your feet.

Behringers will do that to you, Crest will not.

Crest makes a cheaper line for permanent installs (called the CA line) that are a much better buy than behrringers.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

Fixed

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Sorry, but unless your hearing is something other than human you are not going to have more acute hearing in subbass than you are in the midrange region.

You are trying desperately to grasp very fragile straws, unable to support your argument.

 

[Haunz 10+ year member]

Behringer's cannot handle the huge variation is impedence load we deal with. We start the show with a nominal 8, 4 or 2 ohm load, but after you have 100+ drivers heat up after a couple of hours, then you see the men and the boys get seperated. The impedence swings all over the place and cheaper amps can't handle it. They pump up and down in volume, dampening abilty disapears and they start to color the sound, distort, over heat, go into protect mode or just outright fail.

You are entitled to your opinion... but you are really trying to suggest that a behringer can't handle an increase in the load's impedance due to power compression.. ?? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

If you want to argue that a crown (or whatever) has a stronger output section and can handle dead shorts, reduced loads, or prolonged clipping.. or something along those lines, then it's debatable..

But I disagree with much of what you are trying to say...

 

[gunz4me 10+ year member]

Behringer makes a few great products, but I never cared for their Pro DJ mixers. Personally I always used Rane or Pioneer for that and lately I have been seeing a lot of Mackie mixers in use. OTOH, Behringer does make some pretty good signal processing devices and there are a couple of things by them that I would love to use with a carputer!

 

[mokedaddy 5,000+ posts]

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[DidUHearThat? 10+ year member]

LoL! Behringer is the bottom of the barrel amateur crap. Not pro gear. Sorry, we don't use any behringer products in pro live audio. I've never seen any in pro studios either. Some smaller clubs get that stuff, but they soon regret it and have to buy real gear. It's for DJ's and home/amatuer gear.

Mine and your opinion is irrellevent. It is simply not found in pro audio. The money people don't buy that crap. They buy racks of crowns, crest, qsc, etc. No behringer.

We occasionally see some makie and rane stuff, but that's pretty low end too. Good for amateurs, but not pro.

I don't work weddings and barmitzfahs (sp?). I'm talking about major theaters, arenas, stadiums and concert halls.

If your not familiar with names like Midas, Meyer, L'Acoustics, D&B, LabGruben and DigiDesign you don't know what I'm talking about. That's pro audio.