6th order designs

[LMJexploder]

im looking to build a 6th order for 2 zv5 12". If anyone has some design plans that they wouldnt mind sharing or giving me some ideas, or if anyone can recommend someone to design me one i would pay if i had to. have no problem building whatever just still not 100% confident on the program numbers that i come up with yet. max dimensions are 41" wide 50" deep 20 " high

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[Buck 5,000+ posts]

Depends on listening preferences too, I prefer something that's ~RTA flat so a 10-12" sealed enclosure with ~500wrms is enough to keep up with most front stages.

I designed a lot for the "I'm blowing out windshields and ripping sheet metal" crowds lol.

I think that's probably more along the lines of what OP wants here.

 

[Jimi77 5,000+ posts]

I designed a lot for the "I'm blowing out windshields and ripping sheet metal" crowds lol.

I think that's probably more along the lines of what OP wants here.

Even the people that aren't trying to blow out windshield, tend to want "excess" bass. That's why I almost always recommend ported to people despite my preference for sealed.

 

[LMJexploder]

thanks for the rough numbers and the info about the ports that helps, i appreciate your help ill see what i can come up with and let you know. and yeah you were right im going for "im blowing out windshields and ripping sheet metal" lol

 

[LMJexploder]

here is what i have going so far, am i in the ball park .
front chamber is 8 cubes port area is 176 sq in at 60 hz
rear chamber is 5.2 cubes port area is 90sq in at 32hz
subs will be facing the rear chamber motors in front chamber, still need to add bracing and top with cutout just wanted to see if i was close thanks

 

[SlugButter]

Even the people that aren't trying to blow out windshield, tend to want "excess" bass. That's why I almost always recommend ported to people despite my preference for sealed.

People also buy subs with TS specs that lean ported and use them sealed. There are 12 inch subs like the Dayton Ultimax that have an F3 at 35 HZ in a sealed box, and then you have subs like a Skar evl 12 that has an F3 above 50 HZ in a sealed box. The Dayton would sound excellent and the Skar would be lackluster at best. There is a very limited list of subs I’d run sealed in 2024.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

here is what i have going so far, am i in the ball park .
front chamber is 8 cubes port area is 176 sq in at 60 hz
rear chamber is 5.2 cubes port area is 90sq in at 32hz
subs will be facing the rear chamber motors in front chamber, still need to add bracing and top with cutout just wanted to see if i was close thanksView attachment 56573

That's quite a bit of rear port area, I think it would probably work but you might unload quickly below tuning. With that power and size of the box/length of the panels, you need to brace a decent bit, especially in that large chamber with that layout. I would try to keep from U'ing the rear port, you can run 2 ports on either side of the sub and they don't have to exit at the face, you can run them up the side walls some into the front chamber, if you have port wall collision problems where it effectively extends the rear port length too much from getting to close to a wall.

With series 6th's, the front chamber helps dampen noise from the sub and rear port due to the pressure in the front being higher, so it can slow down air speeds or air doesn't expand as quickly exiting port vs dumping into cabin directly from small rear port, so you might be able to do 12-16in^2 per cube rear and help extend your lows down further while limiting the risks of over extension. Just openly thinking, like if you shrunk the surface area of the rear port and tuned a little lower, you can open up your layout options more, but too small rear port can cause excessive heat, which you're nowhere near with that rear port IMO.

You can make the rear box and port act somewhat like a sealed box, as in you can get away with a smaller rear port than normal, to some extent, but it's a nuanced thing that you'll have to decide on. I do think you can get away with less than 17.3 in^2/cube in the rear and it might be more musical, but I bet it'd work and be loud, just might unload more quickly. It's not an easy thing to learn how to discern these factors with series 6th's. Overall, if you've never done a series 6th before, that's an excellent start IMO. You'll get good in no time at these.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

And I've done bigger woofers like 18's at 2-3kw+ in the smallest rear chamber I could use and rear port due to size constraints, and I've done as little as like 8-9 in^2/cube rear and it works, but that's tuned at mid 20 hz range, and those series 6th's didn't play much below tuning at all due to Xmax limitations from small airspace and small port surface area, but it played well from like 25 hz to into the 60's or so (it was a c pillar walll). Tuned at like 25/50 or something. But having like 9in^2/cube rear didn't cause port noise or anything like that due to it being inside of another ported box, not saying you can't ever get rear port noise, not sure. With 12's and that high power, usually more port area per cube ratio is needed across the board vs larger woofers. I've also done at least up to 14 in^2/cube rear with higher tuning and would've done 16 on some of space would've allowed, and that works out great, so it's just narrowing it down for the response you want, based on the consequences of different port and chamber stats.

 

[LMJexploder]

Thanks for the advice I'll play around with it and go with your suggestions, I know it needs bracing I just didn't put it on that layout, I figured I might need to make a change here and there but I'll add it to the final forsure. But all I'm all for my first 6th order design it sounds like I was closer than I thought. Thanks again

 

[Jimi77 5,000+ posts]

People also buy subs with TS specs that lean ported and use them sealed. There are 12 inch subs like the Dayton Ultimax that have an F3 at 35 HZ in a sealed box, and then you have subs like a Skar evl 12 that has an F3 above 50 HZ in a sealed box. The Dayton would sound excellent and the Skar would be lackluster at best. There is a very limited list of subs I’d run sealed in 2024.

I've noticed the trend toward ported and away from sealed subs. The old rule of high Q = sealed & low Q = ported isno longer useful. Plus most listeners prefer a boost in the 40-50hz range.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

I've noticed the trend toward ported and away from sealed subs. The old rule of high Q = sealed & low Q = ported isno longer useful. Plus most listeners prefer a boost in the 40-50hz range.

Woofers have changed so much over the past 10-15 years, like the style and nature of the woofer. I've seen the rise of like noobs into car audio having 5000w as their first or one of their first systems, which is just mind blowingly awesome to me. There's a rise of many many 1500w and many 2000-4500w+ subs now, and there's a trend in the higher wattage bass scene of somewhat lower Fs's and high xmax, and a lot of this is what customers want, but also tech improvements, motor improvements. Some long standing companies used to have big woofers with Fs's in the high 30's and lower 40's iirc, now you see huge xmax, high motor force and huge Mms woofers with lower Fs's. It's a great shift, and I think adds some musicality overall, too, for high wattage systems. So much fun doing 20 hz series 6th's for people with high xmax subs like sundowns.

 

[Jimi77 5,000+ posts]

Woofers have changed so much over the past 10-15 years, like the style and nature of the woofer. I've seen the rise of like noobs into car audio having 5000w as their first or one of their first systems, which is just mind blowingly awesome to me. There's a rise of many many 1500w and many 2000-4500w+ subs now, and there's a trend in the higher wattage bass scene of somewhat lower Fs's and high xmax, and a lot of this is what customers want, but also tech improvements, motor improvements. Some long standing companies used to have big woofers with Fs's in the high 30's and lower 40's iirc, now you see huge xmax, high motor force and huge Mms woofers with lower Fs's. It's a great shift, and I think adds some musicality overall, too, for high wattage systems. So much fun doing 20 hz series 6th's for people with high xmax subs like sundowns.

It is crazy. We used to have to get by with enormous enclosures and ~4-500wrms to get loud. Now 1kw is a pretty tame system.

 

[mr roo]

No! I am not able to, don't get excited haha. Still get people asking me, I wish I could though.

I was getting excited, thought you were back designing

 

[LMJexploder]

ok i made some changes now the rear port area in 72sq" port dimmensions are 4"x9"x 33"L . just over 5.5 cubes for the rear chamber now the rest is the same and i added bracing

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

I'd try to shrink that rear down to 5 if you could, if it's rec 2.5 per.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

You could put the rear opening of rear ports closer together if you wanted to get the rear airspace down, they can be decently close together like you have them now (not as slot) due to air coming in from the side and above the port openings, eliminate the rear wall brace, and at your power, I would use jutting braces and not dowels, especially in that rear chamber. Dowels (wooden), in my experience, do tend to come loose over time, so like you could run a jutting brace in between the front subs and extend it back to brace the top and bottom of the rear instead of the dowel. Just small stuff. Idk about your port lengths, you're on your own on that, but it looks pretty damn good to me so far. Nothing is glaringly standing out to me, just I would try to get exactly 5 cubes net rear personally (all disp accounted for, air subs gets to use) but 5.5 might do what you want it too, hard for me to say.

That port style makes the entire box much stronger, where the L top piece braces the side and rear walls all the length of the port, so that's 2 birds 1 stone kind of thing, good deal.