6.5 vs 8 midbass?

[The Camry]

Yeah, that's a bummer. So the 80prs removed the ability to do three-way? No more network swith on the side?
Yes, Tang Band as well!! The titanium and bamboo cones sound divine!

No, lowest xo point for the hpf is 1.25khz. Too high for a proper wideband to 8in crossover

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[ciaonzo 5,000+ posts]

No, lowest xo point for the hpf is 1.25khz. Too high for a proper wideband to 8in crossover
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Right, but that's why I was suggesting he use two-way mode and the use of the amplifier's crossover functionality where applicable. I laid it all out in one of my earlier posts in the thread. Check my math on that, it's an old school approach for sure. It just requires decent filtering capability from the amplifier and that can take a bit longer to tweak, unfortunately.

 

[loudenuff]

Did you mean that because of phase relationship caused by distance? i understand wavelengths in a broad sense but i cant look at wavelengths and know where my cancellation is gonna be based on reflective surface distance or phase delay based on speaker distance like some guy can

So to using a wide band I'd need a dsp? I know I can get minidsps cheapest one which is a four channel. I could use that for my front stage and not run in nw mode.. but this wouldn't be optimal for my sub would it? I'd like to try the whole coaxial though. Some dude from hybrid audio hit me up on Facebook with biampable coaxials.. like a woofer with a tweeter on top of a cage. Or would it be easier to do just an 8 and a wideband on a dsp? Or nice 5s in the door with a coaxial like you said?

I'm not great with fabrication. I was going to figure out a way to mount a box with the speaker in my door and finerglass the panel

 

[The Camry]

Right, but that's why I was suggesting he use two-way mode and the use of the amplifier's crossover functionality where applicable. I laid it all out in one of my earlier posts in the thread. Check my math on that, it's an old school approach for sure. It just requires decent filtering capability from the amplifier and that can take a bit longer to tweak, unfortunately.

Ugh, i hate overcomplicated head/amp crossovers. I avoid that approach at all cost. WHOLLY prefer everything done on one dsp.

I keep leaning on him just going with a 6.5/1in set up. Thats what his dsp really shines for.

 

[ciaonzo 5,000+ posts]

Did you mean that because of phase relationship caused by distance? i understand wavelengths in a broad sense but i cant look at wavelengths and know where my cancellation is gonna be based on reflective surface distance or phase delay based on speaker distance like some guy can

Right, if the distance between the drivers being blended is too great realtive to the wavelengths in the crossover region, you are sure to introduce comb filtering and all that that entails. Then, like you said, factor in all of the other secondary sources from waves being thrown around and re-intorduced. Whole different can of worms, though. Futile, unless you plan on covering everything with foam and felt but that's just silly for so many reasons. Car audio is like the worst forum for good sound, lol. But somehow we manage...
No, just think like we're in an anechoic chamber and nothing comes back to the source wave launched. The only problems you are left with to consider is how each driver propagates their respective waves and how they combine due to your choice of applied filters, then onto the distance between the centers of the drivers (on both planes), then onto how those waves fall off of the face of the enclosure (baffle diffraction), blah blah blah. But in the car, I just focus on the one problem; the distance between the drivers I am blending based on the frequency I chose to divide at. I think the basic rule of thumb is to stay inside a distance of half a wavelength of that fequency, especially for shallow filters. Steeper filters give you a little more working room but you don't want to push it too far if seamless transition is the ultimate goal.

Anyhow, way off on a tangent at this point. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[The Camry]

So to using a wide band I'd need a dsp? I know I can get minidsps cheapest one which is a four channel. I could use that for my front stage and not run in nw mode.. but this wouldn't be optimal for my sub would it? I'd like to try the whole coaxial though. Some dude from hybrid audio hit me up on Facebook with biampable coaxials.. like a woofer with a tweeter on top of a cage. Or would it be easier to do just an 8 and a wideband on a dsp? Or nice 5s in the door with a coaxial like you said?I'm not great with fabrication. I was going to figure out a way to mount a box with the speaker in my door and finerglass the panel

DSP stands for digital signal processor. ANYTHING you have that changes the original source is a dsp. Your 80prs is a dsp.

What you could do is run in network mode. run your sub rcas to your sub amp. LPF it to whatever xo you want using the 80prs. Then get the 100$ minidsp 2x4. run a full range signal to that from your mid channel. Take then use your 2x4 and split the signal to the 8 and widebander.

or make your life easy. Get a C-dsp. then run whatever the hell you want and have rediculous tuning capability.

 

[ciaonzo 5,000+ posts]

Ugh, i hate overcomplicated head/amp crossovers. I avoid that approach at all cost. WHOLLY prefer everything done on one dsp.

We are in total agreement here, lol. It can be done but you really have to know your way around things to avoid doubling up on filters and all that. Bleh.

 

[loudenuff]

[quote name='ciaonzo']We are in total agreement here, lol. It can be done but you really have to know your way around things to avoid doubling up on filters and all that. Bleh.[/QUOTE]

so if I want to do anything bigger than 6.5 I should get a dsp. Point taken, I run in network mode now and I'm somewhat familiar with it. You and @The Camry have been giving great knowledge on the topic but I honestly don't know enough to fully understand everything you guys are talking about... halfway convinced I should switch my major to something audio related just so I can build my dream system with ease.. lol
I'm going to buy myself a dsp and do this exactly; im gonna get the c dsp then probably going to seal my 18 because I feel like that would suit what I want from it. I'll put 8s in the doors, probably do wide bands in my a pillars since that's where my tweeter location is. Then run the the 5&6 channels to a set of coaxials in my rear doors. Going to strip my back deck and deaden it silly and spend a day or two in a city a couple hours away because nobody in western Washington seams to own an rta lol. I don't want to skim out just to save a few bucks. Might as well do a full investment since this will be my first nice front stage.. I'll probably end up contacting one or both of you when I get my funds together for advice on drivers and what not.

 

[The Camry]

[quote name='loudenuff']so if I want to do anything bigger than 6.5 I should get a dsp. Point taken, I run in network mode now and I'm somewhat familiar with it. You and @The Camry have been giving great knowledge on the topic but I honestly don't know enough to fully understand everything you guys are talking about... halfway convinced I should switch my major to something audio related just so I can build my dream system with ease.. lol
I'm going to buy myself a dsp and do this exactly; im gonna get the c dsp then probably going to seal my 18 because I feel like that would suit what I want from it. I'll put 8s in the doors, probably do wide bands in my a pillars since that's where my tweeter location is. Then run the the 5&6 channels to a set of coaxials in my rear doors. Going to strip my back deck and deaden it silly and spend a day or two in a city a couple hours away because nobody in western Washington seams to own an rta lol. I don't want to skim out just to save a few bucks. Might as well do a full investment since this will be my first nice front stage.. I'll probably end up contacting one or both of you when I get my funds together for advice on drivers and what not.[/QUOTE]

Haha. I started on here asking questions 4-5 years ago. Alot of time on here and diyma. Alot of money spent switching drivers and time spent asking stupid questions. Seriously, if CA.com wasnt broke A'F' right now. id tell you to look at my first threads. its scary amateur. Tbh, you should jump onto diyma for any more threads. Ca.com is falling apart. there is no admin and the site is beginning to have issues.

Id go into acoustic engineering if wasnt such a lazy POS but oh well. Maybe one day. Its definitely interesting stuff but not as complicated as you might think. Those links i posted cover a huge range of what we talked about. Basically over the years ive read and reread the same links over and over. I understand them more and more as time goes on.

Sealing your x18 is definitely your best bet. Itll be interesting to see the results. If you are truly going to put 8s in your doors. Know that a speaker needs a certain enclosure volume to sound right and hit the lower notes. If you plan on building a better baffle and simply firing the 8 into the door like you would a 6.5, then you need to pay special attention to all the things inside the door. Take some grease and grease up all the mechanisms. Put foam anywhere there might be a rattle, read up on the sounddeadenershowdown site. Lots of good info on bracing your door correctly(like butyl behind the reinforcement bar and the outer sheet metal.) If you plan on building an enclosure. You should be certain the the enclosures internal volume is the right size for your driver. Basically what i mean is, build your enclosure first. See how much volume you can get, Then buy your driver. Some drivers thrive in small enclosures, some thrive in larger.

What amps do you have again?

An rta is a software/hardware device thats pretty antiquated at this point. There is a program called REW. (roomeq) that is free and has a RTA built into it. This is covered and explained thoroughly in the tuning guide for beginners link. I highly suggest you simply buy a UMIK-1 and start there. With a good dsp like the C-dsp, A umik-1 is absolutely necessary. In fact i think they give you like a $10 discount on it if you buy it with the c-dsp.

 

[The Camry]

POLL: Pick your 8" Midbass - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

Tang Band W4-1757SB flat cone mid/full range - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

might give you some driver ideas.

 

[The Camry]

If you want the best autotune around. you cant beat this

Jbl ms8 - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

Its the only autotune that has won many SQ competitions. few guys on here run it.

 

[loudenuff]

Haha. I started on here asking questions 4-5 years ago. Alot of time on here and diyma. Alot of money spent switching drivers and time spent asking stupid questions. Seriously, if CA.com wasnt broke A'F' right now. id tell you to look at my first threads. its scary amateur. Tbh, you should jump onto diyma for any more threads. Ca.com is falling apart. there is no admin and the site is beginning to have issues.
Id go into acoustic engineering if wasnt such a lazy POS but oh well. Maybe one day. Its definitely interesting stuff but not as complicated as you might think. Those links i posted cover a huge range of what we talked about. Basically over the years ive read and reread the same links over and over. I understand them more and more as time goes on.

Sealing your x18 is definitely your best bet. Itll be interesting to see the results. If you are truly going to put 8s in your doors. Know that a speaker needs a certain enclosure volume to sound right and hit the lower notes. If you plan on building a better baffle and simply firing the 8 into the door like you would a 6.5, then you need to pay special attention to all the things inside the door. Take some grease and grease up all the mechanisms. Put foam anywhere there might be a rattle, read up on the sounddeadenershowdown site. Lots of good info on bracing your door correctly(like butyl behind the reinforcement bar and the outer sheet metal.) If you plan on building an enclosure. You should be certain the the enclosures internal volume is the right size for your driver. Basically what i mean is, build your enclosure first. See how much volume you can get, Then buy your driver. Some drivers thrive in small enclosures, some thrive in larger.

What amps do you have again?

An rta is a software/hardware device thats pretty antiquated at this point. There is a program called REW. (roomeq) that is free and has a RTA built into it. This is covered and explained thoroughly in the tuning guide for beginners link. I highly suggest you simply buy a UMIK-1 and start there. With a good dsp like the C-dsp, A umik-1 is absolutely necessary. In fact i think they give you like a $10 discount on it if you buy it with the c-dsp.

I've heard about using some type of microphone instead of an rta I just didn't know much behind it. Definitely worth the extra couple bucks then I suppose. And I really want to seal the 18 just because I've never had a proper sealed enclosure before. If anything i can just add external aero port if I don't like it. And I'm definitely gonna go the route of building and then selecting my drivers. I don't want to deal with fuccing up my window tracks anyways.

Boy this couldn't come together fast enough lol. I need to open a shop so I have a good reason to **** my days away in a garage tinkering with speakers...

 

[The Camry]

I've heard about using some type of microphone instead of an rta I just didn't know much behind it. Definitely worth the extra couple bucks then I suppose. And I really want to seal the 18 just because I've never had a proper sealed enclosure before. If anything i can just add external aero port if I don't like it. And I'm definitely gonna go the route of building and then selecting my drivers. I don't want to deal with fuccing up my window tracks anyways.Boy this couldn't come together fast enough lol. I need to open a shop so I have a good reason to **** my days away in a garage tinkering with speakers...

A real time analyzer displays what a mic picks up. My biggest advice is to take your time. Dont impulsively buy. Make sure you know exactly what your buying and why.

Protip: when mounting drivers. Do it with the window down. Dont want to roll your window down to find out your magnet is being hit with the window.

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[loudenuff]

A real time analyzer displays what a mic picks up. My biggest advice is to take your time. Dont impulsively buy. Make sure you know exactly what your buying and why.
Protip: when mounting drivers. Do it with the window down. Dont want to roll your window down to find out your magnet is being hit with the window.

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I could see where that would lead to a bad day lol... and I have a problem with impulse buying lol. I impulse bought 4 fi x 15s and then realized they were nothing that I wanted.

I like those peerless sls 8s mentioned on that thread. Not too bad of a price and they only need like .75 cubic feet which I think I can pull the box can't be more than 5" deep. So with half inch mdf I think I could do well on that. Now I have another question, do I mount the box to the door or the panel? I feel it would be better to mount on the door but it'd be the death of me trying to line up the hole in the door to where i mount the speaker.

 

[The Camry]

I could see where that would lead to a bad day lol... and I have a problem with impulse buying lol. I impulse bought 4 fi x 15s and then realized they were nothing that I wanted. I like those peerless sls 8s mentioned on that thread. Not too bad of a price and they only need like .75 cubic feet which I think I can pull the box can't be more than 5" deep. So with half inch mdf I think I could do well on that. Now I have another question, do I mount the box to the door or the panel? I feel it would be better to mount on the door but it'd be the death of me trying to line up the hole in the door to where i mount the speaker.

The sls are 8ohm so youll be giving them way less power than you think. They have good reviews but keep that in mind. I dont believe there is a 4ohm version.

0.75cuft is ALOT when talking about a sealed enclosure. If you have 5inches deep by 10 high by 15 wide. Thats still only .43cuft. Take some measurements and youll start to see why enclosures are so **** difficult.

The issue with mounting the enclosure to the panel is that the panel isnt designed to take that weight. Imagine screwing big blocks randomly to your door card. Now a ton of deadener ontop and then a big heavy speaker thats outputting energy constantly. Its a recipe for a hard time. You'll have to create multiple extra mounting points yourself which is a chore on its own to make look good. Basically fiberglass is your best bet. Very strong and lightweight.

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