12k+ rms amp?

[yogegoy]

By the way, what vehicle are you planning to do this?

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

The subs in question... the Sundown ZV4 10 and 18... look at them. Put them both at rated power(1750 rms) and tell me that there will be absolutely ZERO difference in how they perform. Unless I have missed or overlooked something(which is very possible), I would say that the 10's will be 'quicker' as I stated originally.

OH, it's a well known fact that 10's are so fast, if you give them a 40hz tone they'll actually play 42hz.

I'm done here....

 

[mattmillme]

Yes you are missing something, more motor force = more controlled excursion, the magnet on the 18 is beefier even though it doesnt look like it. 18s will be louder throughout the whole frequency range which gives the illusion of 18s getting lower then a 10 but in fact those notes just louder due to cone area. Both in ideal enclosures will hit just as fast as the other.
A lot of times people running 18s want heavy bloated low end bass anyways, thats why they make low tuned giant enclosures which is also a reason why this myth is still being perpetrated. Make a proper SQ or rock oriented enclosure and those 18s will shit all over those 10s

SQ world champions have used 18 inch woofers in their installs hmm i wonder why?

Sure. In fact 18's are so "slow" that if you send them a 40hz sine wave they'll only play 38hz.

OH, it's a well known fact that 10's are so fast, if you give them a 40hz tone they'll actually play 42hz. I'm done here....

That's not what I mean. Looking back on my previous comments I didn't explain my thought process fully... would each individual 10 not have more excursion per note than the 18, yet be able to recover quicker from the additional excursion? All the subs have a 35mm max excursion. I thought the magnets were the same, just different coils, pole and suspension on the 18's to compensate for more mass. I am not arguing the 18's for most good companies are significantly different than their smaller woofers, I just thought that there is not much difference on the ZV4s specifically. I thought if you have the exact same cone area with these 10's and 18's at rated power there could be an audible difference.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

That's not what I mean. Looking back on my previous comments I didn't explain my thought process fully... would each individual 10 not have more excursion per note than the 18, yet be able to recover quicker from the additional excursion? All the subs have a 35mm max excursion. I thought the magnets were the same, just different coils, pole and suspension on the 18's to compensate for more mass. I am not arguing the 18's for most good companies are significantly different than their smaller woofers, I just thought that there is not much difference on the ZV4s specifically. I thought if you have the exact same cone area with these 10's and 18's at rated power there could be an audible difference.

The only difference is the output due to cone area.

 

[will3 10+ year member]

You must have a mountain motor car to be able to do high 9 's 1/4 mile with multiple alts and all that parasitic loss and 4 x 100lb subwoofers with enclosure and 4-5 x 75lb batteries with 1- 50lb amplifier

and you also must be a fantastic chassis guy to be able to not tub your car (because you will obviously have all the audio equipment in the trunk) to be able to hook a small tire with all the torque you will need to over come all the weight and loss to run that fast in a straight line

Please tell me you are going to do this with an import car, so I can officially laugh this off as a troll thread

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

That's not what I mean. Looking back on my previous comments I didn't explain my thought process fully... would each individual 10 not have more excursion per note than the 18, yet be able to recover quicker from the additional excursion? All the subs have a 35mm max excursion. I thought the magnets were the same, just different coils, pole and suspension on the 18's to compensate for more mass. I am not arguing the 18's for most good companies are significantly different than their smaller woofers, I just thought that there is not much difference on the ZV4s specifically. I thought if you have the exact same cone area with these 10's and 18's at rated power there could be an audible difference.

There are differences in frequency response of different size subs, but for all practical purposes if you're buying decent equipment, provided you have the CORRECT SIZE box, the only difference will be that larger subs will be louder for the same power. When reproducing below 500hz size does not matter and an extra 90 grams of MMS (about the difference between 18 and 10" driver) is negligible. In fact we can easily see that large drivers that can accurately reproduce music well into the upper midrange in just about any stadium, club, or home system.

 

[Kangaroux 5,000+ posts]

That's not what I mean. Looking back on my previous comments I didn't explain my thought process fully... would each individual 10 not have more excursion per note than the 18, yet be able to recover quicker from the additional excursion? All the subs have a 35mm max excursion. I thought the magnets were the same, just different coils, pole and suspension on the 18's to compensate for more mass. I am not arguing the 18's for most good companies are significantly different than their smaller woofers, I just thought that there is not much difference on the ZV4s specifically. I thought if you have the exact same cone area with these 10's and 18's at rated power there could be an audible difference.

What you're saying would be true if the speakers were in a closed environment where they were compressing the air heavily. Yes the 18 would fail to work as well because it would have to compress more volume of air at the same given power than the 10 which is physically impossible.

However since the air inside the vehicle isn't compressing, and what you consider loudness is sound pressure and not air pressure, then there really is not much difference between the 10 and 18

 

[yogegoy]

You must have a mountain motor car to be able to do high 9 's 1/4 mile with multiple alts and all that parasitic loss and 4 x 100lb subwoofers with enclosure and 4-5 x 75lb batteries with 1- 50lb amplifier
and you also must be a fantastic chassis guy to be able to not tub your car (because you will obviously have all the audio equipment in the trunk) to be able to hook a small tire with all the torque you will need to over come all the weight and loss to run that fast in a straight line

Please tell me you are going to do this with an import car, so I can officially laugh this off as a troll thread

I've been asking what car this is, me thinks it could be Home Made custom like the VW New Beetle with a jet engine in the rear seats and after burners exiting the back bonnet.

 

[mattmillme]

The car is a 65 Buick Skylark. Not a mountain motor, but a LOT of boost. Yes the chassis will have to be **** near perfect on a fairly good track to hook on 10" wide slicks with a 4000-ish lb fully prepped car with driver seeking the low 10's high 9's. Two of the three alternators will be free wheeling when racing. The only other thing the engine will be turning will be the water pump. And thank you for explaining where my thought process was off.

 

[mattmillme]

I forgot to mention nitrous. No troll here... just a young guy with a lofty goal and time to accomplish it.

 

[will3 10+ year member]

I forgot to mention nitrous. No troll here... just a young guy with a lofty goal and time to accomplish it.

Ok, I got you, I think getting there speed wise with that car in a 1/4 is fairly achievable if everything is right and you have the funds to get it there, If it were me I would lower your expectations on the audio side and maybe do a pair of nice 15's in IB which can be done to retain a stock look, and do a nice front stage on some decent power for daily driving and deaden the hell out of it to lower your noise floor

 

[mlstrass 5,000+ posts]

The car is a 65 Buick Skylark. Not a mountain motor, but a LOT of boost. Yes the chassis will have to be **** near perfect on a fairly good track to hook on 10" wide slicks with a 4000-ish lb fully prepped car with driver seeking the low 10's high 9's. Two of the three alternators will be free wheeling when racing. The only other thing the engine will be turning will be the water pump. And thank you for explaining where my thought process was off.

Another area I have experience in. 4000lb+ station wagon, stock suspension, on a 10" slick and not a W tire. 10's on motor and high 8's on spray, so you don't need any exotic chassis work, especially with a power adder and progressive nitrous or programmable MSD box.

Plenty of good big inch Buick motor combos out there that will get the job done.

Back to car audio, get a single 4-5kw amp and do a set up with whatever subs and be happy with it. If/when the time comes to go bigger in a different vehicle, get 1-2 more of the same amp and go to town....

Reason I said you'll need recones on a regular basis is 12kw in a trunk set up has the potential to blow subs on a weekly basis since it will NOT be loud enough to make you turn it down. Full tilt on that kind of power will kill pretty much any 2 subs you throw in there.